Transcript for the Math Jam "WOOT Math Jam" on Sep 5.

Math Jam hosted by nsato (Naoki Sato ).

Welcome to today's WOOT Math Jam!

rrusczyk (19:33:16)
Before we get started I would like to take a brief moment to explain our virtual classroom to those who have not previously participated in a Math Jam or one of our online classes.

rrusczyk (19:33:24)
As many of you know, this classroom is moderated, meaning that participants can type into the classroom, but only the moderators can choose a comment to drop into the classroom. This helps keep the session organized and on track. Also, only moderators can enter into private chats with other people in the classroom.

rrusczyk (19:33:36)
Today we're here to answer questions that you may have about WOOT!

rrusczyk (19:33:41)
WOOT stands for Worldwide Online Olympiad Training.

rrusczyk (19:33:48)
Plus, it's fun to say... 'Woot!'

rrusczyk (19:33:56)
WOOT is a 7-month online training program for students who are preparing for their national math Olympiad or the International Mathematical Olympiad. WOOT 2006-07 will run from mid-September, 2006 to mid-April, 2007.

rrusczyk (19:34:04)
WOOT is sponsored by D. E. Shaw group:

rrusczyk (19:34:10)


rrusczyk (19:34:15)
Why WOOT?

rrusczyk (19:34:20)
Most students have little or no Olympiad-level experience or instruction before they take a National Olympiad. WOOT remedies this problem by offering test-taking and solution-writing practice with feedback, classes with past Olympiad winners, and collaboration with the some of the top high school math students in the world.

rrusczyk (19:34:28)
Specifically, WOOT will include the following activities:

rrusczyk (19:34:33)
(1) 16 2-hour online lectures. Each class will be offered twice to alleviate time conflicts.

rrusczyk (19:34:41)
(2) 8 handouts that will contain articles and practice problems, that will help students prepare for the lectures.

rrusczyk (19:34:46)
(3) 3 Problem Sets, 2 Practice AIME-style tests, and 3 Practice Olympiad-style tests.

rrusczyk (19:34:49)
(4) Detailed feedback on student work on each of the problem sets and practice Olympiads.

rrusczyk (19:34:56)
(5) WOOT message board for discussing lectures, post-lecture problem lists, and past WOOT tests. The WOOT message board already has nearly 500 posts covering a variety of problems.

rrusczyk (19:35:02)
(6) 24-hour online classroom access for WOOT participants to collaborate.

rrusczyk (19:35:11)
Numerous International Math Olympiad participants and USA Mathematical Olympiad winners (including the current Art of Problem Solving instructors) will be WOOT instructors.

rrusczyk (19:35:17)
WOOT is ideal for students preparing for a National Olympiad such as the USA Mathematical Olympiad. Due to generous sponsorship from D. E. Shaw & Co. and Art of Problem Solving, 2006 Math Olympiad Summer Program participants are invited to join WOOT for free. Therefore, all participants in WOOT will have the opportunity to train with the top high school students in the United States.

rrusczyk (19:35:32)
The enrollment fee for WOOT is $695.

rrusczyk (19:35:37)
WOOT's page:

rrusczyk (19:35:39)
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Classes/AoPS_C_WOOT.php

rrusczyk (19:36:02)
At this point I'll open the discussion for questions. I see a lot of already-enrolled WOOTers in the room: you should feel free to ask questions as well!

Karth (19:36:21)
Is there any way that we can prepare for these lectures?

rrusczyk (19:37:42)
This is the purpose of the 8 handouts. Each will have information that will be useful for the upcoming lecture. The handouts also may have some practice questions that will help you 'warm up'.

rrusczyk (19:38:08)
Some of the handouts will also include suggestions about books to read, and links to useful websites.

Karth (19:36:44)
Also, would you recommend any books for us to get so that we can get a feel of what we are going to be taught?

DPatrick (19:38:44)
Some books we like are The Art and Craft of Problem Solving by Paul Zeitz and Problem-Solving Strategies by Arthur Engel. But the best preparation for each lecture, as described above, are the pre-lecture handouts, and occasionally these will have reading recommedations in them.

Altheman (19:37:32)
How much time should one expect to put into the program to improve one's problem solving skills?

rrusczyk (19:39:32)
At the very least, the classes and homework should take you a couple hours a week. But, to get the most out of the program, we would recommend at least 5 hours a week be spent on WOOT problems and classes. However, the program is structured so that you can 'make up' lost time - if you don't have much time one week, the handouts and transcripts will still be available later for you to work on them.

b-flat (19:40:02)
Will there be different problem levels available?

Karth (19:40:24)
What levels of problems does WOOT concentrate on?

rrusczyk (19:42:03)
Yes - one of each pair of lectures will focus on AIME-level problems and very early Olympiad problems. The other lecture will be on easy - hard olympiad problems. Each of the problem sets and olympiad tests will have problems at a variety of levels (from hard AMC through hard USAMO), and they will be clearly distinguished from easy to hard.

Altheman (19:40:17)
I hear this question often, but I was wondering about your opinion: on a typical olympiad problem (say from the USAMO) how much time should we spend working at the problem before asking for a hint / putting the problem aside?

DPatrick (19:43:05)
Different people have different suggestions (of course).

I would spend 10-15 minutes thinking about each problem, making sure that you understand the question and doing some preliminary thinking about possible solutions ideas. If nothing then jumps out at you, maybe consider going on to the next problem, but keeping thinking about the problem in the back of your mind; often it will percolate there and you'll get an idea after working the next problem.

DPatrick (19:43:38)
However, the problems (on the USAMO say) are almost always in increasing order of difficulty...

DPatrick (19:43:50)
...so it may be best to continue to plug away at #1 until you get it.

nebula42 (19:40:55)
I noticed on the schedule (http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Classes/AoPS_C_WOOTSchedule.php) that each of the assignments has a "Review Session." How do these work? Are they similar to the regular classes?

rrusczyk (19:43:59)
These will be somewhat less 'formal' than the classes. Typically we'll have a recent successful Olympiad participant (last year IMO gold medalist did a couple) go over the problems with the WOOTers. They will be similar to the classes in that they will be a discussion of the problems, with the students providing answers to instructor questions. But they will also likely be a little more open and free-form than the more structured classes.

nateharman1234 (19:41:24)
If we miss a class, will there be anyone to ask to help us understand what we missed?

rrusczyk (19:45:04)
The WOOT message board will always be open for questions. (The message board already has around 500 posts, mostly of participants challenging each other with problems and asking/answering questions.)

Karth (19:41:30)
Sorry for asking so many questions :-), but one more: is this the classroom that WOOT will be held in?

rrusczyk (19:46:00)
There is a WOOT classroom that will be open 24/7 once WOOT begins. All WOOT classes will be in that room, and WOOTers will be able to use the room at any time (when WOOT classes are not being held!)

krustyteklown (19:41:49)
How do you think WOOT would compare to the awesomemath year-round program?

DPatrick (19:46:25)
Hard to say since AMY is in its first year. There are two distinct advantages that we can point to with WOOT.

1. Interaction with your fellow students and instructors. AMY is (as far as I know) is mainly a correspondence program. In WOOT, you'll get live lectures, the 24-hour chatroom, and the message board.

2. All the MOP students will be in WOOT, which makes advantage #1 all that much more valuable.

rgrgrg (19:42:28)
Will we receive a 'grade' for Woot?

rrusczyk (19:46:49)
Only if you absolutely require one for, say, a school transcript. Otherwise, there will not be a formal grade. You will receive scores on all your practice tests.

Karth (19:46:51)
yea WOOT pwnz all

rrusczyk (19:47:06)
We agree :)

b-flat (19:43:04)
So, which lecture will be the hard lecture, and which will be the easy lecture?

rrusczyk (19:47:29)
The 'easy' lecture will be first, to get you ready for the 'hard' one.

chessgeek (19:44:25)
I have never used the virtual classroom before. Will the instructor be able to draw a figure, such as a triangle or a circle, as in the real classroom?

DPatrick (19:48:03)
Yes:

DPatrick (19:48:09)


rrusczyk (19:48:30)
On the WOOT page, there is a link to the schedule. The handouts for each pair of lectures will have more detailed information about what will be covered in the class.

Jashper (19:43:47)
Is there a syllabus-like document available that discusses the gist of what will be covered in the classes.

Karth (19:48:00)
When you say that we can get a grade for a school transcript, if we request one, may we get one?

nateharman1234 (19:48:01)
you said something about a school transcript, is it possibel to get school credit for this?

rrusczyk (19:49:46)
Yes, if your school will accept WOOT as a class for credit, we can provide a grade and certification to your school that you participated. However, this is something you would have to take up with your school and arrange beforehand.

krustyteklown (19:49:13)
you mentioned school transcript earlier, what circumstances have students been able to receive credit at their school for aops classes?

rrusczyk (19:50:41)
When they arrange it with their school beforehand. We didn't have any WOOTers do this last year, but we have had students do it for several other of our classes.

rgrgrg (19:49:36)
How high of an AIME should we have to take the class?

DPatrick (19:50:55)
We recommend that you should confidently be able to get at least a 4 or 5 on the AIME before considering WOOT. Confidently does not mean I'll need to get really lucky to get a 4, it means that you should expect to get at least a 4.

nebula42 (19:51:21)
So Mondays are the easy class, while Thursdays are the hard class? (I'm asking this because I usually won't be able to participate on Mondays.)

DPatrick (19:52:12)
No, the Monday and Thursday classes are essentially identical.

rgrgrg (19:51:18)
What about a 3 on the AIME?

rrusczyk (19:52:24)
If you got a 3 on the AIME in 2006, but have learned a lot of math since then, you should be OK. If you got a 3 on the practice AIME you took last week, we'd recommend waiting a year to take WOOT.

emilgouliev (19:47:53)
Is WOOT message board available for everybody?

DPatrick (19:53:00)
It is available exclusively to everyone in WOOT. People not in WOOT will not be able to read nor post in it.

b-flat (19:52:46)
If we do not have much experience with olympiad problems, would the harder class be worth attending?

rrusczyk (19:53:54)
Certainly - you'll have an early exposure to hard topics, which will help you a lot when you see it again. Also, you may surprise yourself and find that some topics are not as hard for you as you expected them to be. On the other hand - go into them not expecting to understand everything the first time around!

rrusczyk (19:54:37)
Are there any more questions?

rgrgrg (19:54:55)
Will Woot be offered again next fall? And if so, will it cover similar concepts?

rrusczyk (19:55:51)
Yes, we expect to offer WOOT every year. Each year it will have some overlap with general concepts with the previous year, but the problems and classes will be almost entirely all new.

junggi (19:55:01)
can we come both monday and thursday?

rrusczyk (19:56:22)
Yes, you can come on both days.

Karth (19:54:41)
Can you show us a sample problem from WOOT? Or perhaps show us how it would be worked out?

DPatrick (19:56:57)
A "typical" example woudl be similar to the type of problem-solving that we used to do in our Olympiad-level problem solving classes. You can get a sample from some of our old Olympiad classes Math Jams, for example:

DPatrick (19:57:01)
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Community/AoPS_Y_MJ_Transcripts.php?mj_id=141

nebula42 (19:57:07)
Will WOOT still be offered free for MOPpers in the future?

rrusczyk (19:57:41)
If we can continue to get sponsorship, yes. This year we only found partial sponsorship, and covered the rest ourselves.

galbatorix (19:56:21)
do we mail hw in? or fax?

DPatrick (19:57:50)
You can either email or fax assignments.

Karth (19:58:13)
When using email, do we TeX them?

DPatrick (19:59:08)
No -- generally you should hand-write your solutions, scan them into a PDF file and mail it to us.

nebula42 (19:56:23)
How many people are enrolled in WOOT, and how many people (on average) will be in each class?

rrusczyk (19:59:31)
There are over 125 students in WOOT. The number of students who show up to each class will vary quite a bit. The classes early in the year will be quite large; the ones later in the year will be smaller as students have more demands later in the year on their time. Then, the students follow along by reading transcripts. (Several USAMO winners this year told me they participated in WOOT in this manner.)

emilgouliev (19:56:37)
What is the average grade on USAMO after taking WOOT?

DPatrick (20:00:26)
We really have no idea, as students' scores are not publicly released (except for the winners).

DPatrick (20:00:55)
Plus scores are not very comparable from year-to-year, as the difficult of the test varies quite a bit.

Karth (20:00:00)
Also, when making drawings, such as geometry drawings, will we be allowed to use rulers and compasses?

Karth (20:00:09)
(And protractors?)

DPatrick (20:01:45)
You can use anything that you would be allowed to use on a USAMO. I believe you are allowed to use everything that you mentioned.

shahashka (20:01:34)
what %ile students qualify for USAMP once they complete WOOT ?

DPatrick (20:02:48)
We don't know for sure (since we don't know all the real names of our students, so there's no easy way for us to tell!), but we'd guess it's in the 80-90% range.

nateharman1234 (19:55:47)
if I have never taken the AIME (or the AMC) are there any other good indicators? I mean i can get a 6-7 on the old ones, but thats at home so its not the best indicator

rrusczyk (20:03:27)
A practice 6-7 is roughly at the level (at least) of a 4 on a real test. You can also enroll, then decide after the first couple classes whether or not WOOT is a good fit for you. The drop date (with full refund) is October 6. Your main guides should be your willingness to work and your willingness to ask questions when you don't understand something (either in class or on the message board).

Karth (20:03:19)
In addition to problem solving, will we be given tips during test day for the USAMO and AIME?

rrusczyk (20:04:12)
We will have a couple test-taking strategies sessions (separate from the regularly-scheduled classes). We will discuss the USAMO in one and the AIME in the other.

pkerichang (20:04:03)
when will problem sets/lecture notes first be given?

rrusczyk (20:04:56)
The lecture notes will be generally given prior to lectures. Message board problems will be given after each set of lectures.

Kiran (20:05:16)
What is covered more: olympiad problems of the USAMO, or tougher question-answer problems of the AIME?

rrusczyk (20:06:55)
This is a really tough question to answer, as the same techniques are applicable to both types of problems. We'll be covering a fair number of olympiad problems, for example, that are on the same level of difficulty as, say, AIME #10.

b-flat (20:06:14)
How many message board problems will their be?

rrusczyk (20:07:25)
This varies by class, but there will be on average at least 10 (sometimes many more) for each of the 16 classes.

Karth (20:06:51)
So will the first lecture handouts be given to us? Would this be September 4th, the week before WOOT starts?

rrusczyk (20:08:42)
We expect to have those handouts ready by the end of next week. The first set of classes are about combining techniques from many areas of math to solve problems, so the handouts won't be as crucial to the first set of classes as they will in later classes.

pkerichang (20:08:01)
will the lectures be more focus on problem solving skills or the concepts involved in each subject areas?

rrusczyk (20:10:17)
Much of the time, the handouts will focus on the base techniques that are needed, with some review of the handout in class. The class itself will focus more on problem solving. (For the first set of classes, the focus is almost all problem-solving, so the handout will be more sparse. But for the next set - geometry - the handout will cover many fundamental facts I'll be expecting WOOTers to be familiar with before class.)

galbatorix (20:09:30)
if we don't have a scanner, can we mail stuff in?

DPatrick (20:10:40)
No, we will not accept submission by mail. It must be email or fax. Check your local library -- they may have a scanner or a fax machine that you can use.

chessgeek (20:10:32)
Do we download the handouts or get them by email?

rrusczyk (20:10:56)
They will be available on the site in the My Classes area.

nateharman1234 (20:11:27)
how many problems are on the problem sets?

rrusczyk (20:12:42)
This will likely vary. We will probably have 10-20 per problem set, with students instructed to answer a specific number (1/3 to 1/2) of the questions. The questions will vary widely in difficulty.

b-flat (20:11:51)
Monday classes will be 7:30-9:30 EST, Thursday classes will be 9:00-11:00 EST, and the review sessions will be Wednesday at???

DPatrick (20:13:37)
They haven't been scheduled yet.

Kiran (20:11:45)
Is homework assigned and turned in on a weekly basis?

rrusczyk (20:13:55)
There are 2 practice AIME tests, 3 practice Olympiads and 3 problem sets. These are scattered throughout the year, a little more frequently than once a month. These are the only things you turn in. There will be message board problems after each set of classes - these you can answer as much or as little of as you like.

Karth (20:12:33)
Um, going back to the school accepting WOOT as an actual class for a grade, by when should we have discussed this with our school?

DPatrick (20:14:24)
That depends on your school -- you should ask them. Every school has its own schedule. I would at least mention it to them as soon as possible, though.

rrusczyk (20:14:53)
Are there any more questions?

Altheman (20:15:16)
How about some problems? :P

rrusczyk (20:15:49)
Check out the WOOT Message board :) There are a bunch!

rrusczyk (20:16:44)
Thank you for coming to the WOOT Math Jam. If you think of questions later, you can email them to us at classes@artofproblemsolving.com.

rrusczyk (20:16:52)
We look forward to working with you in WOOT this year!

Karth (20:16:55)
Thank you for the math jam!

galbatorix (20:17:12)
thank you!

Karth (20:17:59)
When will the transcripts be posted?

DPatrick (20:18:17)
In about an hour.

Karth (20:18:28)
Sweet

Altheman (20:18:15)
Thanks a lot for answering our questions!

uberl33tmage (20:18:16)
thank you