| Transcript
for the Math
Jam "Mathcamp"
on Mar 19. |
| Math Jam hosted by DanZ
(Dan Zaharopol ). |
DanZ20:00:29
So, hello everyone and welcome to the Mathcamp Math Jam.
DanZ20:00:58
I'm going to be moderating the discussion today. Thus, any comments you send will initially get seen only by me, and I will choose to pass some of them to the rest of the room.
DanZ20:01:07
Just to keep things flowing.
DanZ20:01:14
This also lets you ask me questions directly that aren't for the whole room.
DanZ20:01:43
A bit of introduction: Mathcamp is an outstanding summer program to be held this summer at Reed College in Portland, OR.
DanZ20:02:23
I'm a counselor there, and have been going for a long time. I was a student in 1999 and 2000, a "junior counselor" from 2001 through 2004, and I've been a "mentor," a graduate student instructor, from 2005 onwards.
DanZ20:02:26
I'm pretty hooked.
DanZ20:02:40
This Math Jam is your chance to ask any questions you have about the camp, about applying to camp, about finances, etc.
DanZ20:03:03
In addition to myself, there are a few alums of the program that are in the audience.
DanZ20:03:19
Alums, do you want to just quickly say hello so everyone knows when I pass comments on from you all?
DanZ20:03:33
That way, you can hear not just from me, but also from current students.
E^(pi*i)=-120:03:49
Hello, I'm an alum ('06 and '07)
tcs0920:03:50
Hi, I attended Mathcamp last year.
eyefragment20:03:53
Hi all. I'm Youlian Simidjiyski, camper '06-'07, and one of the Junior Counselor for next year's camp
DanZ20:04:22
I'm going to do a quick introduction to the camp now, so that I can cover the basic details.
DanZ20:04:43
If you have any questions you want to ask, feel free to send them along --- they'll queue up and I'll answer them right afterwards.
DanZ20:04:57
So first, the basics: Mathcamp is a 5-week long summer program. It's aimed at people who like math and who want to go beyond what they've seen so far. While at camp you have tremendous choice --- typically around five classes every hour, and you can also choose when you want to attend class and when you want to rest (we don't even take attendence, because everyone there really wants to learn). The classes range over all difficulty levels and cover deep, abstract topics that you might otherwise not see until college or even graduate school.
DanZ20:05:21
Although they are hard, the classes don't usually require even calculus, and we while lots of our students know calculus and other "college math," many come without this background and are fine. The classes range over topics like group theory, topology, logic, set theory, abstract algebra, and so forth. Perhaps you've never heard of these before---the point is, it's not what you know, it's about learning what mathematicians really think about. Some students come in with serious background in these topics, while others have never heard of them before, and everyone still has a lot they can get out of camp.
DanZ20:05:41
Your instructors are graduate students and faculty in mathematics. They know their stuff really well, care passionately about teaching, and in most cases are not too far from your own age. They live with you in the dorms and hang out at all times, not just classes, but meals, with sports and board games outside of class, and so forth. Some of the best math discussions I've ever had have been over lunch at Mathcamp.
DanZ20:06:07
Non-academically, well, it would sound like a cliche if I said that Mathcamp was a "blast," so let me just say this: it is a totally different world to be among your peers, people who also like math and are willing to think deeply about it and also many other topics, for five weeks. Everyone at Mathcamp can talk about the interesting math they're learning, but you'll also find them talking about philosophy and literature, music, linguistics, or even politics. They're very accepting of everyone from all kinds of different backgrounds. In some sense, it's about being with 110 other thoughtful people for this time.
DanZ20:06:26
The social life consists of things I've already mentioned, such as esoteric board games and sports (such as Ultimate Frisbee, soccer, basketball, etc.), to field trips such as whitewater rafting, Renaissance faires, hardcore (and "mellowcore") hikes, amusement parks, and so on, as well as an elaborate "puzzle hunt" where teams compete to solve very difficult puzzles over the course of an hour, musical theater productions, improv acting, discussions about math education, and a piece of "interactive literature," a four-hour event where participants take on the role of a character in a fictional universe, interacting with dozens of their friends doing the same thing. As with all of Mathcamp, you can choose what to go to --- we'll never force you to attend something "fun." Also, I should mention that these events are based off of things that have happened in previous years; what happens this year is up to you (the campers!) and everyone else at camp.
DanZ20:06:41
Finally, I know that this is a cause for concern, so let me say: no one should avoid applying for financial reasons. In recent years, we haven't had any of the admitted applicants drop out because they couldn't afford it. We've given out over $50,000 in tuition assistance, and it's entirely need-based. So if you want to go but you're not sure you can pay for it, please apply, and we will work something out.
DanZ20:07:19
Ok. That was a lot of stuff, but there's also lots that I didn't cover, like the application process and other details about the camp itself. Please, I hope you will ask questions!
synchrofun20:07:44
Is there a set schedule for each day at camp?
DanZ20:07:53
It depends what you mean by "set schedule."
DanZ20:08:05
We do have a class schedule that comes out indicating what classes are at what times.
DanZ20:08:26
The rest of camp is scheduled via a giant "schedule board." It lists all of the days of the week, and anyone can put up a sign indicating an event they want to run.
DanZ20:09:00
That means that students and staff create events on the same level: we all advertise them using the schedule board. A lot of fun stuff that happens at camp is just based on a piece of paper put up on this schedule board that a bunch of people show up to.
DanZ20:09:12
We try to be pretty freeform about how and when things are scheduled to maximize flexibility.
DanZ20:09:21
An alum points out:
E^(pi*i)=-120:09:24
Just a note: the puzzle hunt lasts a lot longer than an hour (it takes all day).
RollandWu20:09:34
Where is the camp?
DanZ20:09:48
Thanks for the question. This year we're in Portland, Oregon, based out of Reed College.
DanZ20:09:57
We move around each year so that returning students can get variety in the campuses they see.
DanZ20:10:07
And so that we can take different field trips each year.
DanZ20:10:24
(For example, the mountains in Oregon are gorgeous for hiking.)
DanZ20:10:45
Oh --- if I ever don't answer your question fully, just let me know.
DanZ20:10:49
I'm happy to expand further on anything I say.
synchrofun20:10:50
Can we attend only part of the 5 weeks? For example, if we will be gone the first week but could be available for 4 of the 5 weeks?
DanZ20:11:29
We have sometimes allowed students to miss camp for one week if they have something important scheduled the rest of the time. However, you'd be denying the spot to another student that can come the whole time, so we tend to be very sparing about this.
DanZ20:11:49
Also, as a new student, I'd say that missing the first week would be really hard for you. I would definitely avoid that if at all possible!
DanZ20:12:07
(The two weeks to avoid missing are the first and the last --- the first because it's so important, the last because you really won't want to leave!)
DanZ20:12:28
From an earlier question, tcs09 (alum) points out:
tcs0920:12:32
Weekdays are divided into clases, lunch, more classes and then dinner and activities. You don't have to do any of the above, but the dorms empty out during classes because everyone wants to go to classes. And during the evenings, you can usually either find an activity or two you really want to go to or people to play board or card games with..
SigmaTheta20:12:53
On average, how many problems on the quiz do we have to solve to be accepted to MathCamp?
DanZ20:13:08
This is a pretty difficult question.
DanZ20:13:11
It depends on which questions.
DanZ20:13:19
And it depends on the year --- things change a lot from year-to-year.
DanZ20:13:26
Also, there may be more to a question than you realize at first!
DanZ20:14:03
So solve as many as you can. I've seen some students get in with as few as three solutions because they solved problems in interesting ways and the rest of their application was good; I've seen students rejected with 6-7, and those might have been in the same year!
Ovrlndnsea20:14:13
And what do you mean by "solve"?
synchrofun20:14:13
What are acceptance requirements?
DanZ20:14:21
So, we have an application quiz for admission to the camp.
DanZ20:14:48
It's ten questions long, and tries to be interesting. You can take as long for it as you'd like, and you're on the honor system not to go looking up the answers somewhere or asking a professor for help.
DanZ20:15:13
In addition to the quiz, you need to write a personal statement and submit two letters of recommendation.
DanZ20:15:23
We consider your whole application together: there's no set cutoff, for example.
Ovrlndnsea20:15:37
Not quite what I meant. With the context, it was about "What about partial work?"
DanZ20:15:45
Ah! Very good. Yes, we're happy to take partial work.
DanZ20:16:10
In fact, most applicants solve very few problems *completely* to our satisfaction, because you have to provide a good explanation for why what you say is true, as well.
E^(pi*i)=-120:16:19
Yeah, I got in with 2 problems completely correct (and a lot of partial/"almost" solutions)
DanZ20:16:32
Just for everyone coming in: this is the Mathcamp Math Jam.
DanZ20:16:43
We're talking about the summer program Mathcamp, to be held for five weeks in Portland, OR.
DanZ20:17:04
I suppose that I haven't yet mentioned our website, www.mathcamp.org, which is a great place to go to find out more about the program.
boarder392220:17:14
How many kids do you take?
DanZ20:17:21
We aim for a camp of 110 people each year.
DanZ20:17:31
Sometimes we have difficulty turning people down who really belong at camp, and we go up to 120.
SigmaTheta20:17:36
What is the acceptance rate?
DanZ20:17:41
It varies a lot from year to year.
DanZ20:17:46
One sec., I have statistics on this...
DanZ20:17:57
(Coming up shortly.)
DanZ20:18:32
We tend to have from 150-240 applicants each year, varying a lot over time.
DanZ20:18:41
And about 60-80 spots for new students, after the spaces taken by alums.
DanZ20:18:46
(Returning students.)
DanZ20:18:51
So it is pretty competitive.
DanZ20:19:06
However, please don't be worried about applying: the quiz is fun, and we're looking for your thought processes, not how many questions you get right.
DanZ20:19:14
Show us deep and creative thinking about the problems.
DanZ20:19:49
Just quickly: anything more on the application?
DanZ20:19:59
I've said a whole bunch, and the rest of the questions queued up are about the camp itself.
SigmaTheta20:20:08
How long does it usually take to find out whether we are accepted or not?
DanZ20:20:20
We should be able to get word back to you within 1-2 weeks of the application deadline (April 30).
DanZ20:20:32
However, some students are waitlisted, in which case it might take longer (we'll tell you if this is the case).
DanZ20:20:46
Also, if you need to hear back earlier, let us know, send in your application earlier, and we'll see what we can do.
boarder392220:20:58
alumni are automatically accepted right
DanZ20:21:17
Yes, in general. We have a provision if there are so many alumni that there's not enough space for new campers.
DanZ20:21:28
But we're hoping not to see this come into effect any time soon.
synchrofun20:21:31
Yes, for the reccommendations, do they have to be teachers?
DanZ20:21:54
One should be a teacher; the other we'd actually rather not be from a teacher, but someone who knows you well outside of school.
synchrofun20:22:05
Can we be accepted if we're only up to algebra 3/4 right now and we're freshmen?
DanZ20:22:32
Yes; we don't look at the courses you've taken very much. It's important that you have enough for camp itself, but algebra can probably do it.
DanZ20:22:53
Of course, you should put time into the quiz!
mz9420:22:57
are alumni accepted in even after, say, a year or two of not returning to Mathcamp?
DanZ20:22:59
Yes, absolutely!
DanZ20:23:19
We encourage taking time off to see other opportunities as well --- Mathcamp can be so addictive that everyone keeps returning, year after year, which is awesome.
DanZ20:23:23
But it's good to get out to other places too!
synchrofun20:23:35
Recommendations: for the person who knows you well, it cannot be a family member, right?
DanZ20:23:40
Yes, we'd like to avoid family members.
Ovrlndnsea20:23:59
How do you prefer the answers to be submitted? (like, what format)
Or is this obvious once one actually tries to submit?
(sorry for typing delay)
DanZ20:24:09
We have an online application system, in which case you can do typed solutions or scan handwritten solutions.
DanZ20:24:22
Try to avoid poorly scanned solutions!
DanZ20:24:38
If you know LaTeX or are good with Microsoft Equation Editor, then typed is great.
DanZ20:24:44
But if it constrains you, don't worry about typing them up.
AlmightyBob20:24:48
Is it okay if your personal recommendation is someone who teaches at your school, but isn't your teacher?
DanZ20:25:01
It can be, but we'd like them to have a context outside of school if possible. In general, use your best judgment.
synchrofun20:25:12
Can you apply for the first time later on in your high school career as well, if it doesn't work out that you can attend this year?
DanZ20:25:15
Yes, definitely.
boarder392220:25:41
Where is the camp next year?
DanZ20:25:47
We're at Reed College in Portland, OR.
DanZ20:25:58
So, I'm going to move away from application details and questions, although please feel free to keep asking about them!
boarder392220:26:02
The next summer after this
DanZ20:26:06
Ah! We don't know yet.
DanZ20:26:13
We're still looking at different possibilities.
DanZ20:26:18
We try to keep moving to make things interesting!
DanZ20:26:24
(Although this is going to be our second time at Reed.)
boarder392220:26:28
Do we have access to like the whole campus?
DanZ20:26:32
Yes, pretty much.
DanZ20:27:10
Some colleges are restrictive about some parts. For example, while we try to make sure that you have access to the gym/fitness center, they might require a liability waiver for that or you might need to be 16+ (it varies from campus to campus).
KSM20:27:27
how safe is the campus
DanZ20:27:44
Campus is pretty safe. Reed is in a very good part of Portland.
DanZ20:28:18
While we try to give you as much freedom as possible, we also do check up on you --- you sign in each night so we know that you're OK, and we ask that you don't leave the dorms after 10pm without staff supervision.
DanZ20:28:29
So we try to find the right compromise here.
DanZ20:28:53
One more item related to applications:
lordviking20:28:56
What kind of financial assistance is there for lower income families?
DanZ20:29:07
In recent years, we haven't had anyone fail to come to camp because of financial reasons.
DanZ20:29:19
We give out around $50,000 of tuition assistance each year, including many full scholarships, and it's all need-based.
DanZ20:29:29
Basically, we are committed to making sure that everyone that gets in can come.
DanZ20:30:00
So please apply even if the camp is too expensive; we have generous financial aid. It's not unlimited (or we'd make camp free!), but it does what it needs to.
synchrofun20:30:15
Is attending this something that colleges look for and are impressed with on college aps?
DanZ20:30:27
It can be, but this should never be why you come!
DanZ20:30:43
Or you will quite possibly be miserable. Come because you're interested in the learning and you will be happy.
DanZ20:31:04
Many of our alumni also ask for letters of recommendation from the instructors at camp.
DanZ20:31:29
This can be really good for the admissions, because we know you well, and we know how you do with more difficult material.
DanZ20:31:37
I would say that, in terms of "get into college" benefit, this is where it is.
synchrofun20:31:48
(I didn't mean that's why I'd go, I just wondered because that's why my teacher wanted me to go. I just simply love math:])
DanZ20:31:51
Quite understood!
E^(pi*i)=-120:31:57
One thing I was impressed with at camp was the absence of people who were just looking for something to add to their college resume.
RollandWu20:32:09
Basically, how much for the camp if without the tuition assitance?
DanZ20:32:19
Without tuition assistance, it is about $3000.
DanZ20:32:36
This can sound really imposing, but again, we have lots of financial aid to make it possible for everyone to come.
DanZ20:32:53
(For those who are wondering why I haven't gotten to their questions yet, I'm saving academics to bunch together in one spot.)
DanZ20:33:03
Oh, and on a related note:
synchrofun20:33:05
Do the colleges give credits if you attend this camp at their college?
DanZ20:33:09
Not in general.
DanZ20:33:23
Our courses are outside of the college curriculum. We're doing this because we love it and because it prepares you for later material.
DanZ20:33:35
Some of our alumni have taken what they got out of camp and then passed out of college classes.
DanZ20:33:56
But we don't have grades, we don't have exams or graded homework, so we can't get you out of any college coursework directly.
lordviking20:34:11
Is it easy to get lost in the campus?
DanZ20:34:16
Not once you're used to it.
DanZ20:34:29
Certainly all the places you know will be easy --- getting from dorms to meals and classes, for example.
athena777_220:34:35
what is the general age range for the students at the camp?
DanZ20:34:48
Most are high school-aged, having just finished 9th-12th grade.
DanZ20:35:20
There's a substantial number (about 10-15?) who have just finished 8th, and then occasionally a couple that have just finished 7th.
DanZ20:35:46
However, students from all years are required to get the same results on the qualifying quiz; we don't make allowances for age here because everyone has to stay in the same academic environment.
athena777_220:35:52
im 13 and in eight grade. am i too young?
DanZ20:35:57
No, you're fine: 13 is our lower cutoff.
boarder392220:36:07
Are there mostly upperclassmen or lower class
DanZ20:36:17
It's pretty evenly spread out.
DanZ20:36:32
To be honest: you don't even always notice. A lot of people don't think to ask what grade someone is in, and are surprised when they find out.
DanZ20:37:12
Ok, moving on to some of the queued up questions:
DanZ20:37:15
(Feel free to keep asking them!)
AlmightyBob20:37:16
Hi, I'm interested in applying to Mathcamp and I have several questions. Would you recommend Mathcamp for someone who enjoys math, but doesn't seek math as a career path? Also, would an eighth grader be overwhelmed by Mathcamp? Lastly, if accepted, do we go on the flight alone or do we have to go with an adult? Thanks.
DanZ20:37:25
To your first question: yes!
DanZ20:37:48
For several reasons. First of all, because then it can mean even more to you to see this kind of cool, advanced math so different from normal high school math.
DanZ20:38:00
You might never see it in college, but it can serve you very well in whatever you end up doing.
DanZ20:38:19
To the second question: It depends on the eighth grader! This is a choice you should make for yourself, based especially on how you fare on our quiz.
DanZ20:38:26
Finally, to the last question: you go on the flight alone.
DanZ20:38:35
We'll pick you up from the airport.
athena777_220:38:45
im currently taking math b. how do u organize classes if students are on differnet math levels?
DanZ20:38:57
I don't actually know what "math b" is, since it varies from state to state.
DanZ20:39:05
Basically: the kinds of mathematics we do tends to be outside of the school curriculum.
DanZ20:39:18
You don't need calculus or even trigonometry to understand most of the topics we do.
athena777_220:39:21
ny state
DanZ20:39:24
Ah, I grew up there!
DanZ20:39:34
But it was different back then.
DanZ20:39:52
Anyway, the upshot is: we're not building on school mathematics, but we're building on your absract reasoning.
DanZ20:40:02
You should have a solid foundation in algebra and geometry.
DanZ20:40:20
But it's not going to play directly in how you interact with the academics.
AlmightyBob20:40:22
uh i'm also from NY, math B is basically 2nd and 3rd year high school math
DanZ20:40:25
Ah, thanks!
DanZ20:40:30
That should be fine.
DanZ20:40:42
Ok, let me transition with this question to academics in full:
RollandWu20:40:44
Currently, there are a few such math camps, such as Awesome, Mathpath, ... Are they all similar or different?
DanZ20:40:56
They are pretty different.
DanZ20:41:11
For example, AwesomeMath (is that the proper capitalization?) is based around problem solving.
DanZ20:41:18
They're looking to build your skills in competition.
DanZ20:42:07
Mathcamp has some competition training --- we have good problem solving, as well as a camp problem solving contest and fun relays --- but it's not what we're about. Our academics tend to go much more for preparing you for future mathematics, and opening your minds to new possibilities about math.
DanZ20:42:37
In terms of MathPath, they're somewhat similar but aimed at a younger age. Anyone here been to both have a comment?
DanZ20:43:08
Mathcamp focuses on fun, interesting, challenging academics without a particular goal beyond the math itself, and on giving you as much choice to pursue what you want to learn as possible.
DanZ20:43:12
We try to give students maximal freedom.
DanZ20:43:21
Relatedly:
athena777_220:43:23
As you said, there are many classes going on on different subjects each day and students decide themselves what to attend. What is the best way to ensure that I don't switch subject too often so I can learn enough about a particular subject. You know sometimes it is very tempting to find what's going on in other subjects.
DanZ20:43:34
You're very right!
DanZ20:43:46
At camp, you'll have an academic advisor who will help you select classes (but the choice is ultimately yours).
DanZ20:43:56
The classes will also continue from week to week, so you can stay with one topic while still dabbling with others.
DanZ20:44:14
One of the most unique things about Mathcamp is the breadth: while you can learn one topic in great detail, you can also experiment and get exposed to lots of others.
DanZ20:44:39
Basically, we'll help you balance it, but don't be afraid to explore random fun stuff too!
DanZ20:44:57
We'll have lots of one-shot lectures you can attend and not worry about problems outside of class, just to get a taste.
DanZ20:45:08
And a daily colloquium which is frequently from one of our visitors about topics outside of the normal camp curriculum.
DanZ20:45:18
As a quick aside, I have a comparison on MathPath:
E^(pi*i)=-120:45:19
MathPath is VERY different from Mathcamp (partly due to the age difference). It is much more structured, and you have no academic choice. However, it does teach a lot of interesting stuff (I learned a lot there) and I would recommend it to someone too young for Mathcamp.
athena777_220:45:22
sounds cool!!
DanZ20:45:25
Thank you!
DanZ20:45:38
I was sufficiently hooked as a student to keep coming back all these years, and I think the alums here would tell you the same thing.
DanZ20:46:01
Ok, let's go into some more depth about the academics, since I have a lot of waiting questions on that.
DanZ20:46:13
It's so hard to get a good idea about the camp just from chatting like this, I wish I could just put you there for a day. :)
athena77720:46:26
how many hours of math each day?
DanZ20:46:30
That's up to you.
DanZ20:46:44
You can choose when you want to go to class and when you don't; when you want to work on problems from class and when you want to relax.
DanZ20:46:48
So you can pace it to whatever you like.
DanZ20:46:57
If you go to the academics portion of our website:
DanZ20:47:20
You can see the schedules from previous years.
DanZ20:47:33
You'll see that there were five hours of classes per day.
DanZ20:47:44
But again, these are fast-paced classes --- we strongly encourage you to take breaks!
DanZ20:48:07
There's also two hours there of "TAU," which stands for "Time: Academic, Unscheduled." You cannot believe how many times we've tried to come up with a better acronym/name...
DanZ20:48:21
The basic idea behind TAU is that all of your teachers make themselves available to talk about math.
DanZ20:48:26
In one central location.
DanZ20:48:45
Early in camp, it's a chance for you to all get together and work on interesting questions posed in classes, clear up confusion, and otherwise review things from class.
DanZ20:49:08
Later, if you choose to do a project, it's also an opportunity to meet with your project advisor/project group and work on it together.
DanZ20:49:23
Or there's this answer, which I quite like:
Ovrlndnsea20:49:25
24, if you have good dreams.
DanZ20:49:40
Also, an alum points out:
E^(pi*i)=-120:49:43
Even for any particular person, it varies - some days I didn't do much outside of class; other times, I was working on problem sets at 1 AM.
athena777_220:50:04
what exactly do u do in the classes? lectures, or more like problems and discussions on how to solve them
DanZ20:50:15
This is a great question. All of the above is the real answer.
DanZ20:50:42
It depends on the teacher, and what the class wants.
DanZ20:51:02
Also the size --- sometimes you get a big class and it's harder to structure it as groupwork. We can't predict class sizes since you can go wherever you want!
DanZ20:51:20
Certainly when I do classes (and those who've been in them can testify), when I lecture, I make it very interactive.
DanZ20:51:43
A lot of the direction comes from you, trying out new ideas, suggesting how we might go, or just taking a moment to reflect and think about what's happened.
DanZ20:51:56
Regarding all these academic topics, an alum weighs in:
eyefragment20:51:57
A lot of learning goes on outside of strictly academic hours too. Since you're around 110 other excited students at camp, you tend to learn quite a bit from random discussions going on in lounges and over lunch.
DanZ20:52:34
Also, even when a class is lecture, there will be lots of opportunities to work together on problems outside of class, discuss it over meals or elsewhere, etc.
lordviking20:52:44
how difficult is the material?
DanZ20:52:57
We have four "levels" of difficulty, described by "stars:" one star up through four stars.
DanZ20:53:09
One thing that's important is that all of the topics we do are interesting regardless of star level!
DanZ20:53:25
However, one star is appropriate for anyone at camp, whereas four stars is... rather crazy.
DanZ20:53:53
That means that it ranges from fun and approachable topics to crazy things, sometimes graduate-level material.
Smartguy20:53:59
is four stars like olympiad questions?
DanZ20:54:14
Certainly four stars might be the kind of class where you cover a bunch of IMO questions.
DanZ20:54:28
But much of the mathematics we do isn't about such questions at all, but rather about building a coherent theory.
DanZ20:54:32
Let me give examples:
athena777_220:54:36
can u giv an example of some math class topics
DanZ20:55:31
One class I've taught before is called "theoretical computer science." In this class, we build a mathematical model for computation that can do everything a computer can do, and then we use it (it's a lot simpler than a big complicated circuit!) to prove things about the limits of computation: what problems can and can't computers solve? What can they solve efficiently, and what can't they solve efficiently?
DanZ20:55:48
The idea is that you build up a theoretical basis.
DanZ20:55:54
There are also a lot more traditional topics.
DanZ20:55:59
For example, you might have a class on group theory.
DanZ20:56:04
(Or "abstract algebra.")
DanZ20:56:17
The idea here is that you build a mathematical theory where you generalize the notions of "addition" or "multiplication."
DanZ20:56:45
What if you consider sets of objects, that aren't necessarily numbers at all, where you still have something that "looks like" addition --- you still have the associativity law, for example, and the ability to take negatives.
DanZ20:57:06
It's this great big generalization of math that you're familiar with, and it's much closer to what mathematicians really study.
DanZ20:57:09
It's also incredibly interesting.
DanZ20:57:27
So you'll get classes on topics like these, building up coherent theories.
DanZ20:57:39
Another example might be "topology," which studies the shapes of different spaces in various ways.
DanZ20:57:56
Or logic, where you study the underpinnings of how you prove things at all in mathematics.
DanZ20:58:02
Or perhaps set theory, where you can study what different sizes of "infinity" there are.
DanZ20:58:16
The point is, there's this tremendous variety of mathematics out there, and this is a chance to see them.
DanZ20:58:29
If you've heard of these topics before, great: I assure you, we go into great depth and you can study them deeply.
DanZ20:58:45
If you haven't, then Mathcamp is also great for you because you can get an introduction.
E^(pi*i)=-120:58:48
Dan, you forgot number theory . . .
DanZ20:58:56
Yes, good call!
DanZ20:59:39
FInally, one more question we had on academics:
KSM20:59:41
does the math you do at mathcamp help when taking AMC
DanZ20:59:56
It can, but it's not our focus.
DanZ21:00:09
Mathcamp will help your thinking and you'll probably do some AMC-like problems while you're there.
DanZ21:00:18
But we are not primarily a contest prep camp.
DanZ21:00:33
Ah! And Alfonso, an instructor at camp, adds:
oxeador21:00:34
One class I have taught before is "Combinatorial Game Theory". These are two-players games with no luck involved (for instance, go, although we choose simpler games) in which we want to find a strategy that always wins, and understand why. The games range from very easy -- which you can solve in 2 minutes -- to open problems that nobody has solved yet.
tcs09_821:00:51
After five weeks of Mathcamp, you will have improved you ability on Math in general. Your AMC score will naturally increase.
DanZ21:01:11
Ok, so.
E^(pi*i)=-121:01:39
I don't know that it will help you much with the AMC or AIME. However, the Olympiad Problem Solving class is excellent training for the USAMO, as is all the proofwriting you'll probably be doing.
DanZ21:01:44
I think I'm done with academics, but please feel free to add more questions. We've already run past an hour, but I'm happy to go as long as there are unanswered questions. (It's busy this year!)
boarder392221:01:52
What happens on weekends?
tcs09_821:02:07
Fun!
DanZ21:02:18
(Oh, one more comment from before:)
eyefragment21:02:20
That said, there are a good number of contests that go on that will help you with the AMC and whatnot. Each week we have Relays and Team Problem Solving. Additionally, I think that half of the USAMO winners from last year were MathCamp alums, but, from having spoken to all of them, contest math is far from the most exciting part of MathCamp for them
DanZ21:02:40
So, first of all, we pull a little trick on weekends. Our weekends run Sunday and Monday.
DanZ21:03:06
There are no classes on "Mathcamp weekends" (we call it "Mathcamp Standard Time"); instead, it's a time to relax (although most people certainly do think about math at least somewhat!).
DanZ21:03:22
We usually have a bunch of fieldtrips (which, for example, eyefragment is working on planning right now...).
DanZ21:03:34
For example, this year I think we're planning on whitewater rafting as a possible fieldtrip.
DanZ21:03:39
(We're still in the early stages.)
DanZ21:03:43
And certainly hiking.
DanZ21:04:00
We also do smaller, more specific field trips for people that are interested: I know we've done Renaissance Faires in the past, for example.
DanZ21:04:16
The reason we want Monday as a day for fieldtrips is that the big tourist sites are a lot emptier on those days, so we get them to ourselves.
DanZ21:04:41
There are also lots of other activities on weekends, many organized by students, many organized by staff.
DanZ21:04:47
These can range over lots of different kinds of things.
E^(pi*i)=-121:04:56
Mathcamp is one of the very few places where you can hike and discuss math at the same time.
DanZ21:05:34
For example, we have the puzzle hunt (which we've discussed before), a lot of wacky board games, random trips out to town, lots of sports, and more.
DanZ21:05:49
Again, all of this is totally optional!
DanZ21:05:56
You can choose what you go to.
DanZ21:06:20
But we provide you with lots of options, and your fellow students do as well --- students are just as welcome to set up activities as the staff are, and many do, filling the schedule board each night with more than you could possibly do.
lordviking21:06:26
that sounds like one of the problems on the quiz (hiking w/ math, that is)
DanZ21:06:28
Hehe.
DanZ21:06:36
Actually, that's exactly where the inspiration came from!
DanZ21:06:49
(The quiz tends to have lots of references to camp --- the names of people in the quiz, for example, are the names of former campers.)
DanZ21:07:07
Basically: you can do anything and everything during the weekends, until you run out of time to do it in!
DanZ21:07:28
Ok, let's see what else is left to answer... not too many questions.
SigmaTheta21:07:32
Are we allowed to bring valubles such as a laptop? If we are not, is there a computer over there to use?
DanZ21:07:39
You are allowed to bring them, yes.
DanZ21:07:57
We tend to encourage you to avoid bringing too many valuables, because we can't guarantee their safety.
DanZ21:08:03
But we will certainly have computers for you to use.
DanZ21:08:16
We negotiate for access to the college computer lab, and we also have some computers in the dorm for quicker e-mail checking.
DanZ21:08:24
An alum points out on this topic:
tcs09_821:08:26
But you will not want to use them.
DanZ21:08:49
You'll be plenty busy with stuff that you may discover you're ignoring e-mails and Facebook and whatnot, because there's so much at camp!
DanZ21:08:58
Also, on the earlier topic of weekend activities:
E^(pi*i)=-121:09:01
In general, if you are wondering "Will there be someone at camp who is interested in X?" or "will anyone at camp want to do X?", the answer is almost always yes.
DanZ21:09:13
Ok.
DanZ21:09:26
I seem to have one more question on the quiz, so if you have more, please feel free to ask --- otherwise, we have certainly been going a while!
Ovrlndnsea21:09:28
How much obviousness should we leave out in our proofs of the application problems? For example, I assume that I don't need to state that <insert possible statement> is true since a(b*c)=(a*b)*c.
DanZ21:09:38
You're right, you don't need to say that. :)
DanZ21:09:57
I would basically tell you to put in enough that a reasonable, mathematically competent person will be able to follow what you say and be convinced of all your statements.
DanZ21:10:38
Don't make huge leaps, because if we can't follow them (or, more likely, if we're not convinced that you understand why what you say is true) then we'll deduct some credit for that problem.
DanZ21:10:56
But we're not looking to see how well you handle all the nitty gritty: we want to see your thought.
DanZ21:11:03
So feel free to skip things that come so easily.
DanZ21:11:15
And then, there's the other view:
E^(pi*i)=-121:11:16
Although at camp you may learn about number systems where that isn't true . . .
DanZ21:11:18
:)
DanZ21:11:31
I am out of questions. Anything else?
DanZ21:11:57
Well, in that case, let me wrap up a bit:
DanZ21:12:13
First of all, Mathcamp is amazing. I may not have fully captured that here, although I've tried to discuss some of the things that we do. If you like math, you will almost certainly enjoy the camp.
DanZ21:13:12
Our academics will give you freedom beyond what you've had before (no grades, no quizzes, no attendence) so you can really explore the material the way you want to do it; moreover, the camp helps you meet other interesting people with whom you'll have much to discuss.
DanZ21:13:24
I just got one more question:
KSM21:13:27
are there many spots still left to fill
DanZ21:13:34
We haven't filled any of the spots yet.
DanZ21:13:44
I expect we'll have around 70-80 spots for new students this year.
athena777_221:13:56
Thank you. It's very helpful.
DanZ21:13:57
Thank you all for coming!
DanZ21:14:06
It was a lot of fun for me. I will hang around to help answer any questions you still think of.
DanZ21:14:25
Also, you can always private message me.
DanZ21:14:31
I encourage you to look at our website, www.mathcamp.org
DanZ21:14:35
And you can contact the camp through there.
DanZ21:14:42
But there's a lot more there, about every aspect of camp.
DanZ21:14:56
(And, admittedly, a lot that's out-of-date we ought to fix!)
DanZ21:15:05
Thanks again, and have a good night --- I'll continue to hang around a bit for us to chat.
Ovrlndnsea_221:15:08
What will we need to bring?
DanZ21:15:29
Since we got another question...
DanZ21:15:56
Honestly, there's not much. Clothing, summer gear, etc.; some school supplies, alarm clock, etc.
DanZ21:16:03
You can bring whatever you like to help make summer more fun.
DanZ21:16:09
But you won't need anything special.
tcs09_821:16:14
A list of necessities will be provided.
tcs09_821:16:27
I was sufficient for me.
DanZ21:16:33
I can only assume that should be "It." :)
tcs09_821:16:43
*IT
athena777_221:17:03
What about sports gear?
DanZ21:17:22
We try to stock a reasonable amount of equipment: frisbees, soccer balls, basketballs, etc.
DanZ21:17:44
You're welcome to bring your own if you like. For example, we'll have access to the tennis courts but we won't have our own rackets; you need to bring your own.
DanZ21:18:25
(Ah, the silly alums:)
E^(pi*i)=-121:18:28
Yes, but were you necessary for you . . . ?
eyefragment21:18:28
I was sufficient for me makes a reasonable bit of sense too. A lot of the fun gets created on the spot from little-to-nothing
DanZ21:18:58
Anything else?
DanZ21:19:03
Alums, anything to add to all my rambling?
tcs09_821:19:19
Mathcamp is awesome?
E^(pi*i)=-121:19:44
Seconded!
eyefragment21:20:02
Best experience ever? Trounces high schol and cololege? These words really don't do it justice...
athena777_221:21:29
Thanks everyone. Bye!
DanZ21:21:32
Thank you!
DanZ21:21:35
Good night, everyone!
tcs09_821:22:12
Thanks Dan!
E^(pi*i)=-121:22:14
Good night, Dan! Thanks for spreading the word!
DanZ21:22:18
Thank you guys, too!
AlmightyBob21:22:56
Thanks!
