| Transcript
for the Math
Jam "WOOT Math Jam"
on Aug 7. |
| Math Jam hosted by nsato
(Naoki Sato ). |
nsato19:30:18
Welcome to today's WOOT Math Jam!
nsato19:30:27
Before we get started I would like to take a brief moment to explain our virtual classroom to those who have not previously participated in a Math Jam or one of our online classes.
nsato19:30:38
As many of you know, this classroom is moderated, meaning that participants can type into the classroom, but only the moderators can choose a comment to drop into the classroom. This helps keep the session organized and on track. Also, only moderators can enter into private chats with other people in the classroom.
nsato19:30:48
Today we're here to answer questions that you may have about WOOT!
nsato19:30:57
WOOT stands for Worldwide Online Olympiad Training.
nsato19:31:07
Plus, it's fun to say... "Woot!"
nsato19:31:15
WOOT is a 7-month online training program for students who are preparing for their national math Olympiad or the International Mathematical Olympiad. WOOT 2008-09 will run from mid-September, 2008 to mid-April, 2009.
nsato19:32:02
Just a reminder that this is the WOOT math jam. If you're here for a class, log out of the classroom, and log back in, so you can get into the right classroom.
nsato19:32:18
WOOT is sponsored by D. E. Shaw group and Jane Street Capital:
nsato19:32:26
nsato19:32:34
nsato19:32:39
Why WOOT?
nsato19:32:51
Most students have little or no Olympiad-level experience or instruction before they take a National Olympiad. WOOT remedies this problem by offering test-taking and solution-writing practice with feedback, classes with past Olympiad winners, and collaboration with the some of the top high school math students in the world.
nsato19:33:02
Specifically, WOOT will include the following activities:
nsato19:33:20
(1) 16 2-hour online lectures. Each class will be offered twice to alleviate time conflicts.
(2) 8 handouts that will contain articles and practice problems, that will help students prepare for the lectures.
(3) 2 Practice AIME-style tests and 6 Practice Olympiad-style tests.
(4) Detailed feedback on student work on each practice Olympiad.
(5) WOOT message board for discussing lectures, post-lecture problem lists, and past WOOT tests.
(6) 24-hour online classroom access for WOOT participants to collaborate.
nsato19:33:35
Numerous International Math Olympiad participants and USA Mathematical Olympiad winners (including the current Art of Problem Solving instructors) will be WOOT instructors.
nsato19:33:50
WOOT is ideal for students preparing for a National Olympiad such as the USA Mathematical Olympiad. Due to generous sponsorship from D. E. Shaw & Co. and Art of Problem Solving, 2008 Math Olympiad Summer Program participants are invited to join WOOT for free. Therefore, all participants in WOOT will have the opportunity to train with the top high school students in the United States.
nsato19:34:02
The tuition for WOOT is $845, but if you register by August 15, the cost of the program is only $695.
nsato19:34:14
Here is the URL for the WOOT page:
nsato19:34:30
At this point I'll open the discussion for questions.
burlingtonmass19:34:42
is the regular class is similar to this in format ?
rrusczyk19:34:50
Yes, in that they will be held in a chat room like this one. They will be pretty interactive (as opposed to us just telling you stuff, as we did at the start of this class). The class will be asked questions, students will respond. Students will ask questions, etc.
SigmaTheta19:34:54
Is it recommended that we know Latex for WOOT?
rrusczyk19:35:12
You don't have to, but it would certainly help you out in the long run. You can use LaTeX both in the classroom and on the message board.
FibonacciFan19:35:31
are we going to do practice problems tonight?
rrusczyk19:35:34
No; we're going to just be doing question & answer tonight.
rikkilay19:35:58
What is LaTeX?
rrusczyk19:36:03
It is a mathematical typesetting language that most professional mathematicians use. You can learn about it on our site.
rrusczyk19:36:11
(There's a lot of information about how to get started)
SigmaTheta19:36:44
How would we submit the practice Olympiad exams?
nsato19:36:47
Detailed instructions on how to submit your solutions will be included with each test. Here are the main points:
nsato19:36:59
For practice olympiads, you can submit your solutions by fax or e-mail, but not by regular mail. (This ensures that we can grade your solutions as quickly as possible.) If you submit by e-mail, you must submit your solutions as a single PDF file.
burlingtonmass19:37:17
is audio will be included in the class as just focusing on pc will be difficult for long time .
rrusczyk19:37:19
There is no audio in the class. Here is an explanation why we have no audio in our classes:
MrBob19:38:00
Compared to Mathcounts, about how much more difficult is the AMCs?
rrusczyk19:38:05
It ranges from considerably harder (AMC 10) to way, way harder (USAMO). There is much less emphasis on speed in the AMC tests than in MATHCOUNTS
buzzer1119:39:44
About how much time will we invest in WOOT? (per week? month?)
nsato19:39:46
That's really up to you. There will be plenty of material for you to work on, between the practice Olympiads, the problems in the handouts, and the review problems given after each lecture. I would expect committing an average of 5 hours per week, but again, that will vary from week to week, and person to person.
rikkilay19:39:50
Would you recommend this program for people taking the AMC 10/12 and the AIME?
duke9419:39:50
at what lvl of skill should we reach before taking the class
rrusczyk19:39:53
We recommend WOOT for students who are very confident they will pass the AMC and think they have at least a fighting chance on the AIME. If you think you have absolutely no chance at all of getting more than 4 or so questions on the AIME, then WOOT is probably not for you.
SigmaTheta19:40:05
If we get an 8 on the AIME are we ready for WOOT?
rrusczyk19:40:06
Yes
rikkilay19:40:15
I know that the AMC 10/12 is offered twice each year. Are you allowed to take it both times?
rrusczyk19:40:16
Yes
duke9419:41:04
is each class taught twice on the same day or on different days?
nsato19:41:07
Each class is taught once on Monday (7:30-9:30 PM ET/4:30-6:30 PM PT), and once on Thursday (9:00-11:00 PM ET/6:00-8:00 PM PT).
burlingtonmass19:41:12
if I am wrong correct me. MATHCOUNTS has opene ended kind of problems while AMC has multiple choice problems.
rrusczyk19:41:14
MATHCOUNTS has short answer questions. The first round of the AMC is multiple choice. The next round is integer answer, from 0 to 999. The last round is proofs.
geoffreywong_219:41:41
can you give us a problem for us to compare ?
rrusczyk19:41:44
You can find many sample AIME and USAMO problems on the message board and in the AoPSWiki.
MrBob19:42:41
What are the exact dates for the AMC 10/12?
yanglunj19:42:41
If we take the AMC both times, will the higher score be used to qualify or the lower score be used to qualify (for the USAMO)
rrusczyk19:42:55
These questions are answered on the AMC page:
rrusczyk19:43:19
If you take both AMCs, the higher score is used (at least that is what has been done in the past)
SigmaTheta19:43:40
I don't know anything about proofs... would that be a problem?
rrusczyk19:43:42
Part of the point of WOOT is to give you the experience you need to learn about proofs.
cognos59919:44:12
how difficult are the practice olympiads in comparison to a regular USAMO?
nsato19:44:13
Each practice olympiad consists of 7 problems, but you only submit solutions to 3. I would say the last 3 problems are representative of USAMO problems; that first 3, for example, are much easier, say AMC level (but they still involve writing up proofs).
negativezeroes19:45:18
Someone told me that there there are different levels in WOOT. Is this true?
rrusczyk19:45:22
There are different levels for the mock Olympiads, but you can attend all the classes (and you will be given all the mock olympiad questions and solutions after the test).
zephyredx19:45:48
is it true that taking the AMC 10 gives you a lower max index? (130)
rrusczyk19:45:49
I don't think so, but the USAMO selection method changes slightly from year to year.
Uprising4219:45:56
do we need to know calculus to take Woot?
rrusczyk19:45:59
Absolutely not.
buzzer1119:46:31
When we submit our solutions to the practice Olympiads, will we submit them using a TeX editor, like the way we submit USAMTS solutions?
nsato19:46:32
Since we want you to take the practice olympiads under "olympiad" conditions, we expect you to write up the solutions by hand, and then either scan them or fax them. Obviously, you won't have access to LaTeX on the USAMO, for example.
mround19:47:01
Is WOOT's primary goal for training for USAMO? I almost made the USAMO this year, but I feel there is still so much for me to learn from AMC12 and AIME, should I consider toattend WOOT?
rrusczyk19:47:04
You sound like an ideal candidate for WOOT. There will be AIME-level problems (typically on the harder end) sprinkled throughout WOOT, and even a couple mock AIMEs. Your beginning Olympiad study will also help you with the harder AIME problems.
burlingtonmass19:48:11
why don't we have regular classes around the country (Different BIG cities) for better teaching Art of Problem Solving ?
rrusczyk19:48:12
Good question :)
buzzer1119:48:45
Do we choose any three problems to send solutions to?
nsato19:48:48
You can choose problems 1-3, 3-5, or 5-7. You can choose which of those triples of problems you want, but it has to be one of these choices.
sunehra19:49:47
I have never been to an AMC contest before, should I bother enrolling, or wait for next year?
rrusczyk19:49:49
You can take some of the past tests to figure out where you are. If you are very young (6th or 7th grade), then you probably aren't ready for WOOT yet. You can also send an email to classes@artofproblemsolving.com with your math background and we can help advise you.
zephyredx19:50:06
Since it's Worldwide training, is there WOOT in other parts of the world as well?
nsato19:50:07
It's the same WOOT program for everyone. We have a few international students, from Canada and Europe, but the vast majority are American.
rrusczyk19:51:17
I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean there won't be any. I haven't heard of any major changes yet, but the CAMC (Committee that advises the AMC) meeting isn't until October.
rrusczyk19:51:32
I'll be there, so I'll know then if there are any major changes being put into place.
rikkilay19:51:59
Is there a trial period for WOOT?
nsato19:52:00
The drop date for WOOT is October 3. If you drop WOOT on or before that date, you will receive a full refund. You can drop by clicking on the "Drop Class" button on the WOOT home page.
pi_squared19:52:06
Would knowing algebra 2 be necessary before attending WOOT?
rrusczyk19:52:08
If you haven't studied the topics of a typical Algebra 2 class (at least on your own), then WOOT will almost certainly be too hard.
Quickster9419:54:26
WOOT is beyond the difficulty lvl of the intermediate classes, right?
Quickster9419:54:26
is a grasp of the knowledge in the intermediate classes required for WOOT?
rrusczyk19:54:28
Complete mastery of the Intermediate classes is not necessary for WOOT (many of the Intermediate classes go up to the beginning olympiad level), but if you find the Intermediate classes way hard, then you're probably not yet ready for WOOT. If you find the Intermediate classes a good fit, then probably about 2/3 of WOOT will be a good fit, and the other 1/3 you'll want to save and revisit a little later :)
Uprising4219:54:39
how about trig?
nsato19:54:40
We recommend that students be familiar with trig, such as basic trig identities, because this knowledge will be assumed.
rikkilay19:56:19
To what level of math do you need to know?
rrusczyk19:56:21
A better metric is your problem solving experience. If you have taken calculus, but can't do more than 2 or 3 AIME problems (that describes > 99% of the students in the US who have completed calculus), then you are not ready for WOOT. If you can look at a past AIME now, and feel pretty confident that you can do 5-6 problems, but have never taken a precalculus class, then you're probably ready for WOOT.
mround19:57:00
I have never taken a class on proof, how do you exactly conduct such a class, given ther may be several ways to approach a problem?
rrusczyk19:57:02
A lot of this is done by example, and through feedback on your work on the message board and the mock Olympiads.
buzzer1119:57:08
How big is an average WOOT class?
nsato19:57:13
It varies a lot, but typically there are 30 to 60 students in a class.
buzzer1119:58:06
Will we be studying anything about matricies or vectors?
rrusczyk19:58:08
We may be exploring the application of vectors to geometry, but we won't be doing your typical physics/precalculus treatment of vectors.
aglee9219:59:33
what levels of classes are there? because i'm not quite confident in my math level... this year's AIME seemed a lot easier than the practice ones i have at home
rrusczyk19:59:35
The classes range in difficulty from those appropriate for students who are trying to pass the AIME to those who are confident they'll pass the AIME and are aiming at the middle or late problems of the USAMO. Some classes will bridge both (the first hour on the fundamentals, the second hour on monstrously hard problems using them).
buzzer1120:00:04
Will the classroom experience be very similar to other AoPS online classes (like the format of the lecture, step by step through solutions, etc.)?
nsato20:00:05
Very much so, because it's the same classroom.
rikkilay20:00:58
Usually, how many questions do you need to answer correctly on the AMC 10/12, the AIME, and the USAMO to get to the next level?
rrusczyk20:01:00
AMC 10: typically need 120. AMC 12: typically need 100. AIME: something in the 6-8 range (varies a lot, but is around a point lower than it used to be, because we sponsored a doubling of the size of the USAMO). USAMO: this varies a great deal based on the difficulty of the test.
Quickster9420:02:47
how many freshman make it to MOP every yr?
rrusczyk20:02:50
Around 25. I don't know yet if red MOP will exist in 2009 (they decide that in the fall or so each year), but I have no reason to believe it won't.
yanglunj20:03:01
But, if the qualifying score is 200 ish, then 100 on the AMC 12 and 8 on the AIME won't get you into the USAMO.
rrusczyk20:03:03
That's a very rare combination, as you might imagine.
yanglunj20:03:46
97.5 on the AMC 12 and 8 on the AIME
yanglunj20:03:51
*cough* happened to me *cough*
rrusczyk20:03:58
Then you're rare :)
buzzer1120:04:00
what is red MOP?</span>
nsato20:04:03
MOP is divided into several level. Red MOP is the level for freshmen.
rrusczyk20:04:11
(To be fair, most AoPSers are rare :) )
zephyredx20:04:28
How many times do the people who take WOOT at least once take it on average?
rrusczyk20:04:32
Good question - I don't know! I'll have to run some numbers to figure that out. It's not uncommon for students to take it twice (and many of the MOP students have taken it several times).
isiahbunshart1020:04:57
how far do you think you should take in school math classes before enrolling in woot. like, through precalculus or algebra 2
rrusczyk20:05:00
A better metric is your problem solving experience. If you have taken calculus, but can't do more than 2 or 3 AIME problems (that describes > 99% of the students in the US who have completed calculus), then you are not ready for WOOT. If you can look at a past AIME now, and feel pretty confident that you can do 5-6 problems, but have never taken a precalculus class, then you're probably ready for WOOT.
yanglunj20:06:48
Aww :(
In any case, what can a USAMO qualifier expect to score their first time around with appropriate review beforehand?
rrusczyk20:06:50
Very hard to say! That depends a lot on the test. Some years, they have a couple problems that are very approachable for new students, and the median score ends up in the 10-14 range. Other years, the "easy" problems are a lot harder than the test writers realized, and rookies (particularly those without proof writing experience) have a very hard time!
MrBob20:07:43
What percent of people taking AMC/AIME usually move on to the next round?
rrusczyk20:07:46
AMC -> AIME around 4-5%ish (high variance). 500 or so take the USAMO (used to be 250 until AoPS sponsored an expansion to 500). They aim for around 10000 on the AIME.
zephyredx20:08:16
When is the USAMO?
nsato20:08:32
It's usually in April. (This info can be found on the AMC website).
isiahbunshart1020:08:46
how does mathcounts experience translate into ability to enroll in woot? i did faily well at mathcounts, (top 3rd at nationals) but i am worried mathcounts experience wont help me too much with amc and aime
rrusczyk20:08:48
True, the MATHCOUNTS experience doesn't automatically translate into AMC success. You should take some of the old AMC and AIME tests to get a sense of where you are. Top 3rd at Nats is quite good!
duke9420:09:57
how many problems are on the USAMO
nsato20:09:58
There are 6 problems, given over 2 days, so that's 3 per day. Previous USAMO tests can be found at the AMC website.
yanglunj20:10:23
How many perfect scores for the AIME and the AMC come up every year nationwide?
rrusczyk20:10:36
Varies a lot. There have been years with a few dozen perfect AMC scores. Perfect AIMEs are rare - usually less than 10, often less than 5. (In 1989, there was only one. Guess why I know that :) )
jjx1_220:10:59
cause you were the only one
rrusczyk20:11:07
:)
rrusczyk20:11:23
Yes, I know what you're thinking --- man, rrusczyk is OOOLLLLDDDD
nsato20:12:08
Are there any other questions?
rikkilay20:14:09
If we were to have a question while taking WOOT, call we call you (the teachers)?
nsato20:14:12
If you have any questions while taking WOOT, you can post them to the WOOT forum. That way, everyone can see the answer and participate in the discussion.
thaihung220:14:56
what is the benifit of taking AMC10 or WOOt?
rrusczyk20:15:00
The benefit of the AMC and WOOT is in developing problem solving skills. These skills translate into all sorts of areas, like science, engineering, law, computer science.
rrusczyk20:15:04
I went to a very average high school - I only took 2 AP tests, for example. No one from my high school went to top-tier colleges. Less than 20% even went to 4 year colleges. I went to Princeton, and was worried that I couldn't compete with people from really good high schools, like magnet schools or private schools.
rrusczyk20:15:11
But I found college easy. Because of my experience with math contests. Princeton math/science/computer/engineering classes were a lot like math contests, and nothing like high school at all. It was great fun, but many of my classmates really struggled in the first year or two, because they lacked my problem solving experience.
rrusczyk20:15:16
That's the value of these programs -- they prepare you to face challenges you haven't even seen yet, and in some cases, challenges that no one has ever seen. (Indeed, most of the jobs I've had since college didn't even exist when I was in high school.)
mround20:16:27
How much extra time do a typical WOOT participant need to spend on their weekly practice olympiads?
rrusczyk20:16:28
The typical work load is 5 hours a week or so on average, but there is very high variance (and I think you'll probably optimize your WOOT experience at around 8 hours/week by doing lots of message board problems, asking good questions on the forums, and spending time during whatever class bores you most in high school thinking about interesting ideas that WOOT brings up).
Poincare20:16:42
how much does it cost to enter woot?
nsato20:16:45
The tuition for WOOT is $845, but if you register by August 15, the cost of the program is only $695.
zephyredx20:16:49
Just wondering, did people in the USIMO team this year WOOT?
rrusczyk20:16:53
Yes, most of them.
Poincare20:17:48
how long does woot last?
nsato20:17:51
WOOT 2008-09 will run from mid-September, 2008 to mid-April, 2009.
rikkilay20:18:05
Is the WOOT Math Jam on September 2 (?) the same thing as this Jam?
rrusczyk20:18:20
Essentially, yes, it will be a question-and-answer session just like this one.
rrusczyk20:19:00
Are there any more questions about WOOT (if you think of one later, you can email us at classes@artofproblemsolving.com)?
nsato20:19:18
Someone asked about homework. There will be plenty of problems to work on, including practice Olympiads, problems in the handouts, and review problems after each lecture.
thaihung220:20:25
but how can we access the classroom? do we need book?
Poincare20:20:25
Is there a textbook to be bought?
rrusczyk20:20:27
You access the classroom just like you attended the Math Jam. There are no required textbooks, but we usually have a thorough textbook discussion on the message board and in the orientation sessions at the start of the year.
Poincare20:21:25
will there be transcripts for the Classroom?
thaihung220:21:25
Just wondering, if we can not acess the classroom
rrusczyk20:21:27
There is a complete transcript of each class available for everyone in WOOT. So, if you can't make class, you will still have access to all the material that was discussed in class.
duke9420:22:20
what percentage of students who take WOOT make it to the USAMO
rrusczyk20:22:22
This is a bit of a guess, as some of our students are anonymous. But we think it's in the 90% range (for American students, of course :) ). Keep in mind, there's some serious bias there -- we do have all the MOPpers from the year before!
thaihung220:23:07
but howw?
thaihung220:23:07
and what is a complete transcript?
rrusczyk20:23:09
You will be able to access the transcript from a link on the WOOT Class homepage.
rrusczyk20:23:23
You can see transcripts of Math Jams, for example, on this page:
kashda20:23:29
How can I save this MathJam after it's finished?
rrusczyk20:23:56
There will be a link to the full transcript on the page linked just above in less than 24 hours (probably within 10-15 minutes after we finish here).
rikkilay20:24:03
What is MOP?
nsato20:24:06
MOP is a camp that prepares students for olympiads, and in particular trains the US IMO team.
Poincare20:24:10
do the woot problems include proofs?
rrusczyk20:24:13
Yes; the majority of the problems we address are proof problems.
Poincare20:25:27
is there a recommended textbook?
rrusczyk20:25:28
For AIME/Olympiad prep, we recommend Art of Problem Solving, Volume 2, our Intermediate Algebra and Counting/Probability, Art and Craft of Problem Solving by Paul Zeitz. When you are ready for hard olympiad problems, some of the books by Zuming Feng and Titu Andreescu have nice problems, too.
toadoncart20:25:45
could u give us a sample problem?
rrusczyk20:25:53
You can find one right on the WOOT classes page:
Poincare20:26:37
how do we draw geometric figures for homework?
rrusczyk20:26:40
Usually with a pencil, but you can use pen, too ;) You'll be hand-writing your mock olympiads. If you want to include diagrams in message board posts, you can draw them on your computer and upload them
thaihung220:27:04
what is intermediate algrebre?
rrusczyk20:27:10
You can read about this book here:
rrusczyk20:27:37
(I know one of the authors pretty well ;) Talks about himself too much, but he's still a nice guy.)
rrusczyk20:28:07
Any more questions?
nsato20:29:30
Thank you for coming to the WOOT Math Jam. If you think of questions later, you can email them to us at classes@artofproblemsolving.com.
nsato20:29:42
That's it for today's math jam.
