| Transcript
for the Math
Jam "AoPS Classes Math Jam"
on Jan 28. |
| Math Jam hosted by rrusczyk
(Richard Rusczyk ). |
rrusczyk19:32:40
Hello, and welcome to an Art of Problem Solving Math Jam. Today we'll be discussing the Olympiad Geometry course. We will go through an example problem from the class, and discuss what the class covers and how it works.
rrusczyk19:32:54
For those of you who are just checking the online classroom out and aren't yet preparing for national high school Olympiads like the USAMO, most of the math we'll discuss tonight will be well beyond you (for now -- your time will come!). I won't be able to give all the background necessary to bring you up to speed, so you'll mostly be using this Math Jam as an opportunity to try out the classroom.
rrusczyk19:33:08
My name is Richard Rusczyk. I founded Art of Problem Solving and have written several Art of Problem Solving textbooks.
rrusczyk19:33:21
Before we get started I would like to take a moment to explain our Virtual Classroom to those who have not previously participated in a Math Jam or one of our online classes.
rrusczyk19:33:29
The classroom is moderated: students can type into the classroom, but only the moderators can choose a comment to drop into the classroom. This helps keep the class organized and on track. This also means that only well-written comments will be dropped into the classroom, so please take time writing responses that are complete and easy to read. Also, only moderators can enter into private chats with other people in the classroom.
rrusczyk19:33:50
Note that it is not possible for the instructor to personally respond to every comment that you submit -- please do not take it personally if your comment is not posted or responded to! I will try to respond to all questions to the extent that I can. I will let you know when to start asking questions about the classes.
rrusczyk19:34:22
The virtual classroom is LaTeX enabled. LaTeX allows users to make nice equations and other math expressions. If you would like to learn how to write in LaTeX, click on the tab on the left side panel of our site and there is a tutorial and reference guide there.
rrusczyk19:34:36
You do not need to learn LaTeX to use our classes or our classroom!
rrusczyk19:34:41
Using LaTeX in the virtual classroom is slightly different than using it on the message board or in a LaTeX editor. If anything you type up in a post uses LaTeX, then you must use a semicolon (;) to begin your post. For example, if you type
rrusczyk19:34:46
rrusczyk19:34:54
This message will look like this when posted in the classroom:
rrusczyk19:34:59
rrusczyk19:35:02
Just remember, if your post uses LaTeX, use the semicolon (;) to begin your post!
rrusczyk19:35:16
(Since we're doing geometry, you won't need much LaTeX tonight.
mathpower9519:35:25
do you have to enable latex somehow to use it?
rrusczyk19:35:34
No; just start your post with a semicolon.
rrusczyk19:35:49
The Olympiad Geometry course covers most of the tactics which are useful for solving high school Olympiad-level geometry problems. Specifically, we will start with the primary tools: similar triangles, cyclic quadrilaterals, and power of a point. Then we will move on to more advanced areas such as homothety, locus, construction, collinearity, concurrency, trigonometry, and inversion.
rrusczyk19:36:35
This course is very challenging; it is most appropriate for those students who are confident that they can already notch a 5 or so on the AIME and want to start preparing for really tough geometry problems.
rrusczyk19:36:46
The course is sufficiently challenging and instructive that one US IMO team member noted 'I took the AoPS Olympiad Geometry class. Then I knew geometry.' There is so much to absorb that one IMO gold medalists took the class twice.
rrusczyk19:37:10
The course will be taught by 2-time IMO participant Valentin Vornicu, and the course assistant will be recent USAMO winner Davie Rolnick (who was a student of mine in this course a few years ago).
rrusczyk19:37:18
The course is on Wednesdays from 7:30 to 9:30 PM ET (4:30 to 6:30 PM PT) starting February 4.
rrusczyk19:37:29
I'll take a few questions now.
mhy12319:37:31
are we doing any problems today?
rrusczyk19:37:54
Yes; we'll work through a problem that is like the problems you'll see in the course.
Darklegacy5219:37:58
Will there be handouts like WOOT?
thing119:37:58
will there be handouts in this class like in woot?
rrusczyk19:38:40
There will be a couple, and informative message board posts. The handouts will be very similar (and in some cases the same as) the WOOT ones.
rrusczyk19:38:57
There will be very little overlap in the class content with WOOT (maybe a problem here or there).
49ers12319:39:00
what is WOOT
BOGTRO19:39:25
Worldwide Online Olympiad Training
rrusczyk19:39:37
It is our Worldwide Online Olympiad Training program, a 7-month preparation program for national olympiads.
BOGTRO19:39:40
another class that covers olympiad material, more broadly then just geometry
rrusczyk19:39:43
Exactly.
BOGTRO19:39:45
will there be challenge sets
rrusczyk19:39:56
Yes; there will be 4, one every three weeks.
joeislittle19:40:10
What kind of student do you think this class is best suited for? What's the main difference between geometry tought here and the geometry at WOOT?
rrusczyk19:40:30
A student who is preparing for the USAMO or other national olympiad is ideal for this class.
rrusczyk19:41:12
There's a greater focus on the higher-end difficulty problems in this course than in WOOT (slightly), and there's simply a lot more geometry in this course than in WOOT (since WOOT covers all areas of Olympiad Math).
13575419:41:23
rrusczyk19:41:26
We'll do a sample problem in about 10-15 minutes.
science.girl.1519:41:30
Is there a textbook for this course?
rrusczyk19:41:42
No. Not yet -- I'll write one someday :)
queenez0819:41:47
will we be able to know if we're in the right level for this class after today?
rrusczyk19:42:15
If you have taken the AIME, then that's a fair guide -- if you feel you can consistently get 4-6 problems right (at least), then you're probably ready.
BOGTRO19:42:26
There are tests online that you can look at
BOGTRO19:42:26
the "Are you ready"
grn_trtle19:42:26
What if I haven't taken the AIME?
rrusczyk19:42:59
There are also diagnostic tests online.
rrusczyk19:43:19
That leads to a class description that has the diagnostic tests.
49ers12319:43:37
what is AIME?
mathspee19:43:44
how much trig do i have to know?
rrusczyk19:44:26
Trig is only a small part of the course -- you need to know basic geometry well (like that which is in the diagnostic tests).
phsource19:45:00
Is the knowledge taught here beyond what is available in the AoPS textbooks?
rrusczyk19:45:11
Yes, very much so.
mathpower9519:45:17
:approximately how much will the class cost?
rrusczyk19:45:28
The Olympiad Geometry course is $250.
yjlim5519:45:31
what effect occurs if we're absent one day in course
rrusczyk19:45:45
A full transcript of every class is available within 24 hours of the end of class.
rrusczyk19:46:13
This allows you to review any missed materials, and prevents you from having to worry about note-taking during class (which allows you to focus on the math instead).
alligator11219:46:17
How long is the course?
rrusczyk19:46:26
12 weeks. 2 hours each week.
yjlim5519:46:29
is this course a higher level than the Introduction to Geometry textbook?
rrusczyk19:46:33
Much higher, yes.
Guest_2319:46:40
will there be an olympiad algebra course as well?
rrusczyk19:46:56
Not in the near future. There's plenty of that in WOOT.
mathpower9519:46:58
Are these transcripts available to only people enrolled in the class or are there some sample transcripts?
rrusczyk19:47:04
Only to those enrolled in class.
rrusczyk19:47:15
There will be a transcript of this Math Jam available publicly.
mathpower9519:47:48
Are there transcripts of all the math jams?
rrusczyk19:48:00
Yes. On the Math Jams page in the Community.
pythag01119:48:04
Can we work together on the challenge sets?
rrusczyk19:48:27
Yes, and we give the students open access time to the classroom to get together and do so.
thing119:49:17
what advantages does taking an online course have over just reading a textbook and doing problems?
rrusczyk19:50:12
This depends on what type of student you are. (And if you're able to find a decent textbook for Olympiad-level geometry -- this is part of the reason we have an olympiad geometry course, but not any other olympiad courses. There aren't many good resources for this area of math.)
BOGTRO19:50:20
You can ask questions for one thing
rrusczyk19:50:23
That's one.
styrofoam199419:50:24
yu can collaborate
rrusczyk19:50:34
That's another.
rrusczyk19:51:03
If you're a very passive learner, then there probably isn't much difference. But if you're an active learner, then there can be a huge difference.
Guest19:51:07
Learning from others is rather useful too.
mathpower9519:51:07
And it is encouraging to be surrounded that are interested in math as well
rrusczyk19:51:16
And this is a big reason why.
49ers12319:51:18
Are 8th graders allowed to take this course
rrusczyk19:51:25
Absolutely; I've taught several.
pythag01119:51:28
How difficult will the problems be? Will there be problems like 2008 IMO #6 in the course?
rrusczyk19:52:02
Yes. There's even an old IMO shortlist problem that I believe was probably deemed too hard to be on the IMO. (I love, love, love the problem though, so I included it.)
mhy12319:52:08
are 7th graders?
qwertythecucumber19:52:12
Are you allowed to skip a math course if you have studied from one of the AoPS books on that course?
rrusczyk19:52:35
Anyone is *allowed* to take any of our classes. The main thing you have to determine is whether or not the class is right for you.
yjlim5519:52:38
will these problems be harder than the Mathcounts problems?
rrusczyk19:52:45
Way, way, way harder.
bpgbcg19:53:08
What will be the format of the challenge sets?
rrusczyk19:53:28
You'll get a list of 7-10 questions and have three weeks to solve them and write solutions.
rrusczyk19:53:49
You'll receive feedback on the accuracy of your work, and your writing style.
rrusczyk19:54:03
We aim to teach both the mathematics and proof writing skills.
rrusczyk19:54:16
(Though nearly all of the work in the classroom will be on the former.)
BOGTRO19:54:22
You type or mail your solutions.
mathpower9519:54:22
how will we submit our work in the class?
rrusczyk19:54:32
You'll have full instructions with each assignment.
yjlim5519:55:08
during the 2 hrs of class, is there a pause button whenever we need a break?
rrusczyk19:55:32
You can step away for a break whenever you like, and then return, review what's happened in class to catch up, and then continue with the class.
joeislittle19:56:02
Why would/should a student preparing for an olympiad focus more on geometry than other subjects? Would you say that other subjects are easier to learn independently?
rrusczyk19:56:42
That's part of it, in the sense that there are more books in other areas. Olympiad Geometry is also one of the first classes we developed. We had the material handy, and a lot of people were asking us to bring it back.
rrusczyk19:57:06
We have integrated the material from our other olympiad class (Olympiad Problem Solving) into other classes, like Intermediate Counting and WOOT.
thing119:57:11
Will there be problem sessions aside from class where we can work on problem sets as a class with maybe a teacher to help or something?
rrusczyk19:57:37
There is a course message board. Each week, you'll have a small set of problems there (in addition to the homework you turn in) to discuss.
rrusczyk19:57:51
You can also use the message board to ask questions of the instructors and your peers.
mathpower9519:57:54
Can we buy materials from the class separately?
rrusczyk19:57:56
No.
rrusczyk19:58:27
I'm going to go ahead and go through a sample problem, and then take more questions.
rrusczyk19:58:39
Here's the sample problem:
rrusczyk19:58:45
Let ABC be a triangle and D be the foot of the altitude from A. Let E and F be on a line passing through D such that AE is perpendicular to BE, AF is perpendicular to CF, and E and F are different from D. Let M and N be the midpoints of the line segments BC and EF, respectively. Prove that AN is perpendicular to NM.
rrusczyk19:58:55
rrusczyk19:59:41
I'll give you a moment to digest.
rrusczyk19:59:54
There's a link with the problem and image, if you want to print it out.
rrusczyk20:00:09
(Many problems in the class will start with a moment for you to digest what's going on.)
rrusczyk20:01:35
Where should we start? Are there any observations? Any useful lines to draw in?
pythag01120:01:39
looks cyclic quadrilateral/angle chase
alkjash20:01:39
I see a lot of cyclic quads...
rrusczyk20:01:55
The right angles scream cyclic quadrilaterals. Which quadrilaterals are cyclic?
grn_trtle20:02:23
BEDA is cyclic
mathpower9520:02:23
Fore example ADFC is a cyclic quad
pythag01120:02:23
ABED, AFCD
alkjash20:02:23
ABDE, AFCD
rrusczyk20:02:35
ADEB is cyclic since <AEB = <ADB.
rrusczyk20:02:41
AFCD is cyclic since <AFC + <ADC = 180.
BOGTRO20:03:01
Ithink we can start by drawing AM
Guest_2320:03:01
can we show that AM is the diameter of the circle passing through A, N, and M?
rrusczyk20:03:15
Keeping in mind our target, AM is begging to be drawn (we want to show that ANM is a right angle - AM is the hypotenuse of triangle ANM if ANM is right) - so we do that.
rrusczyk20:03:24
pythag01120:03:41
We want ADNM to be cyclic
rrusczyk20:03:56
Indeed, that would tell us that <ANM = 90, since <ADM = 90.
rohan21020:04:01
what does cyclic mean?
rrusczyk20:04:08
A circle passes through all 4 vertices.
rrusczyk20:04:22
In general, we work both forwards and backwards on most olympiad geometry problems.
rrusczyk20:04:35
This is a key strategy -- you make a list of what you know, and work forwards from that.
rrusczyk20:04:49
You also keep a list of what you need in order to finish.
rrusczyk20:05:14
You keep these lists separate (I usually put them on different pieces of paper), and when you have something on both lists, you win.
rrusczyk20:05:28
Going forwards, we have already found some cyclic quadrilaterals:
rrusczyk20:05:39
rrusczyk20:06:29
Working backwards, we noted that we want to show that ADMN is cyclic.
rrusczyk20:06:36
ANMD sure looks cyclic. What else looks true in this diagram that might help us get there?
styrofoam199420:07:17
how do you know that they are cyclic?
queenez0820:07:18
how do we determine if quadrilaterals are cylic?
rrusczyk20:07:37
We'll discuss this at the beginning of the Olympiad geometry course.
rrusczyk20:07:49
It's one of the fundamental building blocks, and there are many ways to show it.
rrusczyk20:08:20
Two are: If the opposite angles of a quadrilateral are supplementary, the quadrilateral is cyclic.
rrusczyk20:08:58
If we have <AEB = <ADB in a quadrilateral, where AB is a side, then the quadrilateral AEDB is cyclic, as we have in this problem.
rrusczyk20:09:43
Back to our problem, what looks like it is true in this problem that might be helpful if we could prove it?
rrusczyk20:10:23
(Another key strategy: draw large, precise diagrams. Then, you will see things that might be important, and try to prove it.)
phsource20:11:04
A few triangles _look_ similar (ABE and ANM, maybe AFC)
alkjash20:11:04
triangle BED ~ triangle NMD
alkjash20:11:24
similar triangles?
pythag01120:11:24
AFC, ABE similar. Proved this...
rrusczyk20:11:47
I see some guesses at similar triangles. Do we have any proofs?
rrusczyk20:11:57
(Proof that any two triangles are similar?)
mathpower9520:12:14
we know that angle ABD=AED and angle AFD=ADC
rrusczyk20:12:45
Small typo there: <ABD = <AED and <AFD = <ACD. What similar triangles does this give us?
rrusczyk20:13:17
(Another key strategy: we discover cyclic quadrilaterals, and then we immediately try to find a way to use the resulting equal angles.)
joeislittle20:13:31
Triangle AEF is similar to triangle ABC by AA and inscribed angles
alkjash20:13:31
BAC ~ EAF!!!
rrusczyk20:13:37
Our cyclic quadrilaterals give the similarity right away: angle ABD = AED (inscribed in arc AD of the left circle), <ACD = AFD (inscribed in arc AC of the right circle). Therefore, ABC ~ AEF.
rrusczyk20:13:56
Now what?
BOGTRO20:14:10
We haven't used BM=MC
rrusczyk20:14:18
Whenever you feel like you've made some progress in a problem but have become stuck, try going back to the problem and looking for a piece of information that you haven't already used. Here's the problem again:
rrusczyk20:14:25
rrusczyk20:15:05
We've used the right angles, but we haven't used the fact that M and N are midpoints of BC and EF. So, we focus on that bit. How do we use it?
alkjash20:15:52
then BAM ~ EAN and we are done?
mathpower9520:15:52
We can als get that triangles BAM and EAN are similar, I think
DanielC20:15:52
since m and n are midpoints EAN ~BAM
joeislittle20:16:00
Triangle ABM is similar to AEN
rrusczyk20:16:05
How do we prove this similarity?
pythag01120:17:23
SAS Similarity, given that ABC and AEF are similar
alkjash20:17:23
SAS: AB/AE = BC/EF = BM/EN and <ABD = <AED
DanielC20:17:23
SAS
thing120:17:23
SAS
rrusczyk20:17:31
The angles ABM and AEN are equal and AB/BM = AE/EN, so ABM ~ AEN by SAS Similarity.
rrusczyk20:17:51
Now what? How do we finish?
rrusczyk20:18:52
I see some of you chasing after new similar triangles.
rrusczyk20:19:03
Keep your eye on the ball: what do we want to prove?
bpgbcg20:19:20
ANM is right
rrusczyk20:19:32
And what else did we put on our "What We Need" list?
DanielC20:19:51
ADMN is cyclic
rrusczyk20:19:59
When we discover two similar triangles, we should always check out the new angle equalities we have from the similarity. One of the first things we should ask ourselves is 'Can these angles identify any new cyclic quads?'
mathpower9520:20:12
We now know that ADMN is cyclic because angles AND and AMD are congruent and subtend AD
Guest_2320:20:12
angle AND = AMD
Guest_2320:20:12
by inscribed angles
Guest_2320:20:12
they are on the same circle
Guest_2320:20:16
<AND = <AMD implies by inscribed angles that ANMD are on the same circle, subtending arc AD
mathpower9520:20:29
THen we'r done
mathpower9520:20:29
because then ADM +ANM=180
rrusczyk20:20:45
In this case, we can answer yes: <AND = <AMD, so ANMD is cyclic.
mathpower9520:20:48
and one of the angles is right and so, so is the other
rrusczyk20:21:01
Since ANMD is cyclic, <ANM = 180 - <ADM = 90.
SonyWii20:21:10
and we know that ADM is 90 degrees, so ANM must be 90
rrusczyk20:21:12
Similar triangles + cyclic quadrilaterals. Nothing fancy. We just used basic tools and asked ourselves the right questions ('What looks true? What would I like to be true? What haven't I used in the problem yet?').
rrusczyk20:21:31
This problem involves a pretty funky transformation called a spiral similarity.
pythag01120:21:33
Well, we have ABC is similar to AEF sicne ABC = AEF and ACB = AFE from cyclic quads. Consider a spiral similarity with center A rotating counterclockwise BAE degrees. It takes M to N since M is midpoint of BC and N is midpoint of EF, so MAN = BAE, and MDN = EDB=EAB = MAN, so ANMD is cyclic and we are done.
rrusczyk20:21:57
A spiral similarity is basically a combination of a rotation and a dilation.
rrusczyk20:22:18
We'll talk more in the course about some special transformations, and how to use them to tackle problems.
lZerol20:22:20
What is a "dilation"?
rrusczyk20:22:45
Sometimes called a "homothety", it's basically scaling everything away from or towards a point in a plane.
rrusczyk20:23:02
Another general comment: Think of how you would construct the diagram with ruler and compass & the problem will sometimes become clear. In this case, in order to construct the original diagram, we must draw a line through D, then find some point E on it such that angle AEB is right - how would you construct that?
alkjash20:24:14
draw the circle with diameter ab
pythag01120:24:14
Oops, I meant draw a circle with diameter AB
Guest_2320:24:14
construct a circle with AB as the diameter
rrusczyk20:24:38
We construct point E by drawing a circle with diameter AB - where it intersects our line is point E. When we do this, we note that it looks like this circle goes through D, too. We think - ah-ha! - we may have a cyclic quadrilateral. We investigate, and. . . the rest of the problem unfolds.
rrusczyk20:24:58
I've solved a number of problems just by doing this sort of thinking.
mathpower9520:25:03
On a scale of one to ten, how hard is this problem, relative to other geo problems?
49ers12320:25:03
is this problem considered easy in math olympiad
rrusczyk20:25:08
We typically introduce concepts in the course with problems that are a little easier than this one. The majority of the problems are harder, some a bit harder, and several much, much harder.
rrusczyk20:25:33
This problem would be rather easy for a USAMO.
mathpower9520:25:41
So we're done right?
rrusczyk20:25:52
Yes, we have completed the problem. I'll now take some more questions.
yjlim5520:26:16
so, if we consider the problem confusing to us, should we enroll??
rrusczyk20:26:35
I recommend reading over the transcript and looking at the diagnostic tests.
rrusczyk20:27:09
If you look over the transcript and find it way over your head, then you probably might want to wait.
DanielC20:27:11
how often do you offer this course?
rrusczyk20:27:40
Very infrequently. This we brought back largely by popular demand. How, or if, we'll offer it in the future depends on if there's enough demand for it.
mhy12320:28:23
i did the diagnostic tests and they were easy. But what if this problem takes sometime to do? Should we enroll?
rrusczyk20:28:43
Yes -- this problem we did doesn't have to appear easy in order for you to enroll.
alkjash20:28:45
Does WOOT cover as much geometry as this course?
rrusczyk20:28:57
No, because it must cover many other areas, too.
thing120:29:03
to continue on my question will instructors be available at some time to help the class with the problem session?
rrusczyk20:29:49
If you're asking if teachers are available outside of class hours, then the answer is, "Yes, on the course message board." You can post questions there for instructors and your peers to address.
SuperMathBoy20:29:57
what's woot
thing120:30:04
how do you check demand for a class because there are some classes I would enroll in if I knew about them?
rrusczyk20:30:21
We judge by how many people enroll this time, mainly. And by discussing ideas with students on the site.
formyson20:30:29
how do you describe dilation for a 7th grader to understand
rrusczyk20:30:42
Enlarging and shrinking.
pythag01120:30:48
Is it allowed to discuss challenge set problems on the forum?
rrusczyk20:31:27
For this course, we'll probably allow it, with the suggestion that if you know the answer, teach (ask guiding questions) rather than simply tell.
Guest_2320:31:29
is there a limit to how many people can be enrolled in the class?
rrusczyk20:31:42
There are practical limits, but we don't hit them with this course.
rrusczyk20:31:57
The universe of students who are ready for this sort of mathematics is pretty small, so this course is usually not large.
alkjash20:31:59
When is the deadline for enrolling?
rrusczyk20:32:09
Feb 14, though the class starts Feb 4.
BOGTRO20:32:31
isn't that next week?>
rrusczyk20:32:42
Yes, the class starts one week from today.
jjx120:32:44
does that mean if you enroll after Feb.4 you'll have to read transcripts?
rrusczyk20:32:51
For the classes you missed, yes.
mathspee20:32:53
will i need to use a calculator
rrusczyk20:33:05
A calculator will be essentially useless in this class.
SonyWii20:33:08
what is the average number of kids that enroll?
rrusczyk20:33:24
I expect that we'll have 25-30 or so in this course.
Guest_2320:33:26
are there two sessions per week, like woot?
rrusczyk20:33:32
No, just one, on Wednesday nights.
rrusczyk20:34:02
Any more questions about the course?
SonyWii20:34:39
are there any other examples on the website of problems that are average difficulty?
rrusczyk20:35:35
That's the post-test for the class. That will give you an idea of the types of problems.
thing120:35:38
So this course will go to the level of todays olympiads?
rrusczyk20:35:42
Yes.
DanielC20:35:46
How many hours do you expect your students to spend working on problems each week?
rrusczyk20:36:26
For this course, I would say on the order of 8 hours a week to get the most out of it. Olympiad-level problems require a serious time commitment to master. Some spend more, some spend less.
yjlim5520:36:32
How much help does this make in our knowledge of geometry.
rrusczyk20:37:08
As I noted at the beginning of the class, I've had IMO medalists describe this course as the main source of their understanding of geometry (and one gold medalist even took the course twice.)
thing120:37:40
will we cover spiral similarity in this course?
rrusczyk20:38:14
It will be mentioned a bit, but it's not that big of a deal. We'll spend more time with more common and powerful transformations like homothety.
alkjash20:38:17
In the course, do you assume knowledge of the concepts and just practice applying them or do you explain them first?
rrusczyk20:38:46
Depends on the concept. We usually do a quick review of fundamentals, but we will assume you know things like "Two angles inscribed in the same arc of a circle are equal."
parakeet20:38:49
Changing course slightly, Introduction to Geometry class would be appropriate for what grade level students? Middle School or High School? Is the Intro to Geometry course more appropraite for students preparing for MathCounts?
rrusczyk20:39:07
Most of our Intro Geometry class is usually in grades 7-9, with some 6th graders and some 10th graders.
rrusczyk20:39:13
It is definitely appropriate for MATHCOUNTS.
rrusczyk20:39:24
The Olympiad Geometry class is definitely not appropriate for MATHCOUNTS
rrusczyk20:39:51
Any more questions about the course?
jjx120:39:53
unless youwere mathcounts nats winner?
rrusczyk20:40:27
There are MATHCOUNTS students who will benefit from this class (if they're ready for the USAMO - and there are middle schoolers who are), but this class will not help with MATHCOUNTS.
MathAndKnowledge20:40:30
so why did that guy take this class twice? didn't he save the transcripts (so that he can just look them over rather than take it again)?
rrusczyk20:40:53
He is very social and enjoyed the experience of working on the problems with others.
thing120:41:21
How much help is going over the transcript?
rrusczyk20:41:46
Tough question to answer -- depends on what you're trying to use it for. We have some students who don't even attend the class and mainly just use the transcripts and message board.
rrusczyk20:42:08
Others mainly lean on the transcripts to avoid having to take notes (they can look stuff up on the transcript).
formyson20:42:12
can we save this whole class
formyson20:42:12
this is my first class to join - so i am not sure if we can save the class or not
rrusczyk20:42:36
Speaking of transcripts, there will be a transcript of this class in the Math Jams section of the site by the end of tomorrow.
mathpower9520:42:42
I'm a middle schooler that never took the the actual AIME, but scored around 6-8 on practice, untimed rounds, but not excessive. Am I qualified for this class?
rrusczyk20:43:14
Quite possibly. Judging from what I saw you do tonight, I'd say yes.
Jessie Shin20:43:20
but does that work?
rrusczyk20:43:56
(Asking about just reading the transcripts). Again, this depends on what kind of learner you are. Learning is very personal -- what works for one person does not necessarily work for another.
thing120:44:01
how does the difficulty of this course compare to GEO proofs at AMSP does anyone know?
rrusczyk20:44:24
I don't know, but if that's they're toughest geometry class, I would guess the difficulties are similar.
SonyWii20:44:27
What do you think is the absolute best class to take now for MATHCOUNTS
rrusczyk20:44:55
Probably the Intro Counting -- two national champ coaches told me they spend half their prep time on counting.
pythag01120:45:05
Altheman, who was helping teacher for AMSP Geo Proofs took this class, so you might want to ask him.
rrusczyk20:45:16
Yes, he was a strong student in this course.
alkjash20:45:19
About how many problems would you do in one class?
rrusczyk20:45:33
Varies, based on how many easier intro problems there are, but usually 5-10.
mathspee20:45:36
does this course contain any trig?
rrusczyk20:45:43
There's one day of trig.
mathspee20:45:47
next class willl we do the same questioning thing?
rrusczyk20:46:21
There will be a little Q&A during the first class of the course, but much less than this (because presumably students will have read the Course Introduction documents upon enrolling).
alkjash20:46:40
Just out of curiosity, where was the problem we did today from?
rrusczyk20:47:01
I wrote this 5 years ago, so I don't quite remember, but I think it was from an older national olympiad.
mathspee20:47:03
what type of problems do the chalenge set contain?
rrusczyk20:47:33
Hard ones :) Usually a couple warm-ups, a couple moderately tough problems, and a few hard USAMO/IMO-type problems.
mathpower9520:47:35
Would we ever need any calculus for the USAMO or AIME?
rrusczyk20:47:55
Not required, but occasionally helpful. They try to write problems so that calculus does not give an advantage.
rrusczyk20:48:00
They usually succeed.
