rrusczyk (19:34:01)
Last April I attended the NCTM Convention in Anaheim, California. There I met Richard Kalman, Executive Director of MOEMS. This alone made the price of the trip worth attending. I'm now a proud PICO, and very happy to introduce Richard Kalman to all of you, and introduce MOEMS to all of those who use our site.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:34:00)
Hi! Welcome to the MOEMS Math Jam. The Math Olympiads are a series of contests designed to help students in grades 4-6 and 7-8 learn to think mathematically. Our other goals include getting students to love math as much as we do, introducing important mathematical concepts, developing creativity and skill in solving problems, and providing for the satisfaction, joy and thrill of mastering challenging problems.

Mathpower (19:35:41)
I've been a pico for three years and have loved the program. I'm hoping to learn even more today.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:36:23)
Thank you. I expect to make a few statements and then answer questions.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:36:55)
Our emphasis on mathematical thinking and problem solving is designed to provide students with a strong foundation for their future studies, such as high school courses and SAT exams. With good thinking skills, students can master new topics more easily.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:37:35)
MAIN FEATURES:
The program is built around 5 monthly contests, in order to maximize immersion, minimize forgetting, and keep interest high. No traveling is involved.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:37:53)
All problems are nonroutine, in order to catch and hold student interest and to build problem-solving skills. Contest problems require careful thought and understanding of mathematical principals, rather than unusual or advanced curricular topics. The accent is on learning to think mathematically, not on covering future work early.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:38:22)
There are two separate divisions, E for grades 4-6 and M for grades 7-8. Although younger students may participate, we do not recommend it because of their greater vulnerability. Older students are not eligible.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:38:50)
Each team can have up to 35 students. Many schools have more than one team.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:39:21)
We do not believe in eliminating students. The more, the merrier!

RichKal-MOEMS (19:39:51)
To prepare for the contests and let students know what to expect, each team receives at least 50 problems with detailed solutions well in advance.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:40:06)
After the contests lots of awards are shipped. We send a Certificate of Participation for every student, assorted Individual Awards for roughly the top 50% of all students, and assorted Team Awards for roughly 25% of all teams.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:40:28)
Support for the teacher is superb. 8 newsletters walk you through the program and provide feedback after the contests. In addition, all questions are answered promptly, whether by email or by phone (toll-free 866-781-2411). Between 9 am and 4 pm Eastern Time, 12 months a year, our office is usually open.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:40:49)
You have great flexibility in how you use the Olympiads. Some schools give our contests to all classes, others use it as a pullout program, and still others as a club that meets before or after school or at lunchtime. Some schools assign it to all students, others just to interested students, and still others to specially selected students.

eMom (19:39:32)
What should 4th graders do to prepare for the contest?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:42:02)
First, the teacher should tell them that since this is their first year, it is their learning year. Scoring is secondary.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:42:13)
Then...

RichKal-MOEMS (19:43:26)
the students should try as many problems as possible. Once they are tried, the student should check not only against our answers, but also should read the model solutions.


IKufareva (19:44:18)
Mr. Kalman, all I know about PICOs is that they are persons in charge of olympliad. They do not have to be school teachers, though, do they?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:45:35)
No, they do not. Some teams are run by parents, some by high school students, a few even by the district superintendent.

IKufareva (19:44:58)
Overall, to what extent is the school supposed to be involved?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:46:51)
Only schools, not individuals, can enroll. The extent that the school is involved depends upon the principal and the PICO.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:47:12)
That's an internal matter, for the school.

teach259 (19:47:32)
Can the team be smaller than 35?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:48:29)
Yes. I've seen teams as small as 2 students. Fortunately, not many of them.

IKufareva (19:49:18)
How are the contest administered? Are there any specific dates and times?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:50:28)
You proctor the contests as if they were timed tests.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:50:41)
The 2005-2006 dates for the Division E Olympiads are all Tuesdays: November 15, December 13, January 10, February 7, March 7. The Division M Olympiads are scheduled for the next day, all Wednesdays. If any of these dates conflict with some school function or many students are absent, reschedule the Olympiad to the nearest possible date.

punit (19:51:13)
what books do you recommend and roughly howmany hrs of math or how may questions perday

RichKal-MOEMS (19:51:58)
We have 2 books that, of course we recommend.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:52:55)
Creative Problem Solving in School Mathematics offers a topical approach to problem solving, opting for depth. It was written for the PICO.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:53:53)
Math Olympiad Contest Problems is a compilation of all the problems from our first 16 years.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:54:22)
It is intended for students, primarily.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:54:54)
It also offers multiple solutions to many problems.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:55:13)
Other books from other sources are also fine.

Mathpower (19:52:31)
I have a question. I have two teams that meet on a pullout basis and so on contest days, the contest is given two times, one right after the other. After my first team (4th graders) take their contest, they of course want to discuss the problems and see how they did. I refrain from doing this with them to prevent the next team (my 5th and 6th graders) from hearing about the problems and having an unfair advantage. But them I'm frustrated because by not discussing the problems with the first team while they're still on the students' minds, I've lost out on a very important learning time. What do you suggest for schools with more than one team? How should the tests be given fairly?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:57:21)
If you want to discuss solutions with group 1, fine.........provided there is no contact between the 2 groups.

RichKal-MOEMS (19:58:08)
One PICO makes sure that group 2 is seated before dismissing group 1. Does anyone else have a technique.

mwarner (19:54:32)
I have been a PICO for probably 10 years. Normally we have held MAth Olympiad after school as an intramural event. It has become increasingly difficult to get students to stay. Any suggestions? Likewise I have given tests to my math students in class without any practice to be ready for the tests. It is dificult to find the time with curricula requirements. Any suggestions?

IKufareva (19:55:13)
When you say "only schools can enroll", does that include the cases when the club is run by a parent volunteer, and all the expenses are paid from PTSA (parent-teacher-student association) funds?

RichKal-MOEMS (19:59:36)
To Mwarner: We have many such schools.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:00:01)
Oops. That was to IKufareva

RichKal-MOEMS (20:02:47)
This is for mwarner. To get students to stay, offer them something that makes them feel their time is well spent. We recommend having students choose and present the problems and do all the explaining. This gives them ownership. You only present if no one comes up with a method.

teach259 (20:02:42)
I also compete with other activities after school. I now give the students a notebook of problems to work. They work independently or come to after school gatherings. We stay in touch with schoolnotes.com or email.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:03:33)
teach 259 is answering the question also. Thanks.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:05:21)
When I coached, I assigned whole sets of problems to be done at home. The students also had solutions and were asked to grade themselves. Ownership!

teach259 (19:55:27)
Will the book for PICOs outline or suggest a timetable for practice time?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:06:40)
The book does not, but our newsletters do. Basically, it's one hour a week for practice as a minimum. You get out what you put in.

Mathpower (20:05:15)
In response to Mwarner's question about squeezing this program in with all the other curriculum required...with my teams, it's a pullout for the very top math students from each class. When my Math Olympiad kids are missing their regular class, those remaining are doing the regular math curriculum...It's then a way of differentiating for those top kids.

eMom (20:06:28)
Do you assign problems for students to work during the gathering hour, or have them do it prior to the gathering? How to train the student with time limit?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:08:20)
Both. After all, in the regular class, I believe in classwork plus homework.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:09:11)
Ask them to try the problems at home and in class with the time limits.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:09:35)
The real learning takes place in the discussion.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:12:12)
Discussions tend to help students move from Guess and Check to reasoning mathematically.

IKufareva (20:11:44)
The comment about real learning in discussion is very true. From my tutoring experience, the best practice is to solve at home and then share and compare in class. However, it requires students some discipline.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:13:00)
I found that the discipline grows over time.

mathmarsha_2 (20:12:56)
The boys I am working with intend to participate in Matchcounts next year. How can this forum and website help? This will be our first participation and we are excited!

RichKal-MOEMS (20:14:18)
I will only discuss the MOEMS inschool contests, because that's the purpose tonight.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:15:23)
The big thing is that MOEMS contests are continuous, developing a way of thinking. To that extent, it builds a foundation for MATHCOUNTS and the SATs.

eMom (20:11:43)
What if the problem is too hard that the subject is not covered at school yet?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:17:04)
For younger students, let them know that they are in a learning stage. Some questions may be beyond them now --- but not next year.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:18:34)
For very hard questions, all students know that some questions are meant to challenge the very best student, but they will be able to handle their fair share of problems.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:19:14)
These problems also present the PICO with a great Teachable Moment.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:19:55)
PICOs have told us that they have built whole lessons around rich problems.

Mathpower (20:17:25)
Do you recommend mastering one problem solving strategy at a time and basing the homework problems on that one strategy OR giving students a problem set that contains many different sorts of problems, similar to what they'll see on a real contest?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:21:25)
I recommend doing a wide variety for a while, and then beginning to focus on specific topics. First establish a foundation of thought, and then dive for depth.

IKufareva (20:18:11)
How are MOEMS solutions scored? Are there separate individual and team scores? Does a high individual score give a student any advantage in terms of school course availabbility, summer programs participation etc?

mathmarsha_2 (20:18:40)
Don't you think you can use the student's interest in the problem at hand to create a ""teachable moment""--and just go ahead with instruction on the topic even though the student will learn it more formally later?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:23:05)
Scoring: 1 point for each correct short answer. The PICO grades it using our answer key.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:23:28)
Each student can score up to 25 points over the year.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:24:02)
The team score is the sum of the top ten yearlong scores.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:24:25)
We offer a huge number of awards. After checking that our scores are correct, we ship enough certificates for all students, a trophy for the team high scorer, embroidered felt patches for about 50% of all student, cloisonn? pins for about 10% of all students, a medallion for all students who achieve a perfect score for the year. We also ship team awards to about 25% of all teams, with the top 10%, roughly, earning plaques.

IKufareva (20:25:04)
Sorry, I forgot to ask: is it a multiple-choice test, or students actually have to produce their own answers?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:26:12)
Short answer. We've had two multiple choice questions in 26 years.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:28:23)
Mathmarsha_2, Every PICO handles things their own way. You do what you find works best with your students. We'll offer advice, but we won't mandate much, certainly not in the way you teach.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:29:33)
We mandate time limits, grade level maxima per team, team size maxima, standard testing procedures, but not much else.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:30:06)
Back to the types of questions...

IKufareva (20:27:11)
Good! Less possibilities for guessing, more for reasoning.

sammath (20:19:48)
For younger students, do you recommend introducing specific topics and then giving them problems sets that cover that topic?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:32:11)
That is one approach. I prefer cycling types of problems to get them used to the surface of topics. It allows ideas to ""cook"". Then diving in deeper so they see all facets of a concept.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:32:42)
But I've also taught for depth from the start. That worked too.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:32:57)
The key is immersing students in their math.

Mathpower (20:30:44)
I think your newsletter says 32 foreign countries are involved in MOEMS. Is there any way to get a list of which countries participate?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:33:49)
I believe our web site, www.moems.org, contains a list in the April or May newsletter.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:34:35)
All members of a team must be full-time registered students in the same school or in one of its feeder schools in order to be eligible for team awards. All other teams are called District Teams and are not eligible for team awards. Students on District Teams, however, are still eligible for any individual awards they earn.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:37:36)
If you think of any other questions, feel free to email us at info@moems.org, or call us at 866-781-2411. We're on summer hours now, Monday - Thursday, 8AM to 4 PM Eastern Time. Some one is always near a phone.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:38:20)
Are there any other questions?

Mathpower (20:38:37)
Thanks for offering this MathJam...I think it's s great idea.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:39:16)
Thank you.

IKufareva (20:38:58)
There are a few more MOEMS math jams scheduled; are they for teachers or for students?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:40:11)
There are 15 more, all in the fall. And all for adults who will work with the students.

anirudh (20:37:12)
hello.

mathmarsha_2 (20:39:01)
How about a sample problem to get our juices flowing?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:40:31)
Funny you should ask.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:40:55)
The area of a rectangle is 108 sq cm. The number of cm in the width is one-third of the number of cm in the length. What is the length and width, in cm?

mathmarsha_2 (20:41:47)
18 and 6

RichKal-MOEMS (20:42:03)
How did you do it?

teach259 (20:42:01)
18 and 6

IKufareva (20:42:03)
6 cm and 18 cm. Juices flowing ;-)

RichKal-MOEMS (20:42:49)
How did you get it?

mathmarsha_2 (20:42:37)
length is three times width so 3w*w=108, solve for w.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:43:36)
Good. But what if you are not yet using algebra?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:44:25)
I have 3 correct answers, but all used algebra. How could a fifth grader do it?

Mathpower (20:44:35)
you could guess and check with different lengths and widths that multiply to 108

RichKal-MOEMS (20:46:14)
One power of Math Olympiads is that students often can use G&C, but we can guide them to use a systematic table at first and then to use reasing.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:46:26)
Make that reasoning.

mathmania (20:44:59)
List of all possible pairs (L,W) that gets you area of 108 and then pick the one that L=3W

RichKal-MOEMS (20:47:01)
Good. That's one way.

mathmarsha_2 (20:45:06)
guess and test--try 15 and 5, too small, then try 18 and 6.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:48:16)
Good. The first way keeps 108 constant and looks at ratios. The second reverses that thinking. Both use tables.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:48:49)
If both are presented to students, they see the flexibility of concepts.

teach259 (20:44:05)
I would use a diagram for those unfamiliar with algebra, but know the formula for area.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:49:26)
How?

IKufareva (20:45:20)
The rectangle is 3 squares side by side. Divide 108 by 3 to get the area of the square. Figure out what the side of the square is (it is still algebra, but very intuitive).

RichKal-MOEMS (20:49:43)
Wow! Great!

mathmarsha_2 (20:46:19)
or make a table with columns for guesses for length, width, area and use the fact that the area ends in an 8 to narrow the possibilities. Of course, that assumes that the answers are whole numbers, which is not part of the problem conditions.

Mathpower (20:50:09)
I think it's fun to show students so many different ways to solve one problem.

IKufareva (20:47:34)
What if they (all possible pairs, I mean) are not integers? Too many of them, then!

RichKal-MOEMS (20:51:50)
Good question. Does anyone have an answer?

RichKal-MOEMS (20:52:38)
Can you have more than one pair with a given product and a given ratio?

Mathpower (20:52:56)
Well, since the area was a whole number...

RichKal-MOEMS (20:54:46)
The product of a whole number and a fraction can be a whole number.

IKufareva (20:54:22)
We know it is only one pair, but we are familiar with algebra! When explaining it to 5th graders, I would say that listing the possibilities is the last resort, when nothing else works. It is actually the most difficult way, because the student either has to make sure he/she listed ALL the possibilities, or prove that the answer is unique.

Mathpower (20:54:09)
No. I don't think you can.

RichKal-MOEMS (20:56:36)
The 3 squares offer a way to check whether or not both dimensions are integers.

mathmarsha_2 (20:53:25)
I thought we're supposed to be thinking like fifth graders...

RichKal-MOEMS (20:58:00)
We are, but some of them are SO inventive, when we give them their heads.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:00:19)
When we let them think their own ways through a problem and try to follow their thinking.

Mathpower (20:58:47)
When we give them their heads!!!????

RichKal-MOEMS (21:00:55)
Oops. Answer before question again.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:01:17)
It's an old horse training term.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:02:15)
Here's one way I saw a sixth grader co. If we multiply the ratio (width:length) by the length, we get the width alone. If we then multiply that width by the length, we get the area. So, the area is equal to the ratio multiplied by the square of the length! Equivalently, the area divided by the ratio (written as a fraction) is the square of the length.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:02:46)
Numerically, 108 ? 1/3 is 108 ? 3 = 324. What number times itself is 324? 18, which is the length of the rectangle. The dimensions are 6 cm by 18 cm.

IKufareva (21:03:15)
This is great. This is reasoning!

RichKal-MOEMS (21:04:17)
When each student has the opportunity to explain ""My method"", they all take ownership, and they each teach others something new.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:05:25)
I've seen 5th graders come up with 5-6 entirely different ways to add the first 20 odd numbers....

RichKal-MOEMS (21:05:50)
....and that was only the first half of that problem.

teach259 (21:05:46)
When you are looking for a number that times itself will give you 324, are you indirectly teaching square roots?

RichKal-MOEMS (21:06:38)
Yes. Youngsters are capable of understanding that concept, if it appears in an intuitive way.

teach259 (21:06:44)
and if a child (whatever the grade) understands that, can we not go ahead and introduce that concept?

RichKal-MOEMS (21:07:48)
Of course. But all teaching involves choices. You explore big concepts only if you have the time.

mathmarsha_2 (21:07:28)
For the adding odd integers problems, while there are MANY approaches, don't you want students to see the power of combining ""solve a similar simpler problem"" and ""look for a pattern""? Then they can generalize to the first [i]k[/i] odd numbers and come up with the formula.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:10:28)
Yes. But I don't want them to see only one or two ways. I want them to realize that math is no more cut-and-dried than music,. I want them to develop over time the knowledge that if one way doesn't work well, any way might.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:11:23)
But that again is the province of the adult working directly with the student. I'm way in the background.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:12:15)
It is always the teacher on the scene who is the key.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:13:25)
Are there any other questions? You have been on for 1 hour and 45 minutes.

IKufareva (21:13:11)
Sorry, Mr. Kalman, I have to leave. Thank you very much. A lot of information, and inspiration, too! I'm looking forward to participating in other MOEMS math jams.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:14:19)
Thank you. Check out the MOEMS Web site for more information and problems.

mathmarsha_2 (21:13:56)
I agree we want our students to be flexible thinkers, but also efficient.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:17:12)
Agreed. The question is when to present an efficient method. I believe in getting the student first to feel the concept intuitively. This is a form of ""preparing the ground"". Once they see the inevitability of a concept or procedure, they usually can see why the method works.

mathmarsha_2 (21:14:49)
Thanks--signing off now.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:17:32)
Bye. Thank you for coming.

teach259 (21:18:03)
Thanks for a great first meeting..hope to have another before the first competition. Good night.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:20:12)
Thank you. I've scheduled 3 more like this in September, October and November, and 6 others will do 12 problem solving sessions in the fall, half before the first contest.

rrusczyk (21:21:55)
I'd like to thank you all for coming, and to thank Richard Kalman for sharing so much MOEMS information!

rrusczyk (21:22:01)
There is a message board on our Forum for the MOEMS, and there you'll find information for a private message board just for teachers.

RichKal-MOEMS (21:22:14)
Thank you all for coming. Thank you for having me.

rrusczyk (21:22:18)
I look forward to seeing you all at the next MOEMS Math Jam!

RichKal-MOEMS (21:23:13)
Let me know if you wish to join the MOEMS PICO Forum. The more, the merrier!