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related to a famous olimpiad problem
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harazi
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#1
related to a famous olimpiad problem
asked by harazi

Dear friends,
I know I posted many idiot questions during my presence on this site and this is the reason for which I will ask another one. Is there an infinite set of natural numbers such that the sum of the elements of any finite subset is a natural power? It is useless to say that I couldn't solve it, but all persons to whom I gave it didn' t manage to break it. Can you?

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 5:08 am  Back to top 
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heartwork
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#2
This seems to be related to Catalan's conjecture. If you have a proof for it, you might have an answer for this too!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:06 am  Back to top 
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Charlydif
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#3
I'm not sure but i think the answer is yes. Someone told this problem related to the following:
Is there an infinite set of integers such that the sum of any finite subset its NOT a perfect power?
I remeber three things about this two problems,
1) One of them have a nice solution considering some density argument (probably the one with no sum perfect power)
2) One have a simple solution
3) The other was difficult and the person didnt told me the solution.

I am going to try to calrify my memory and think on them tomorrow, if i remeber or have any advance i post it.
For instance i think itsnt dificult to show there are arbitrary long sequences with this property but i am not sure right now. Anyway, i cant see the conection with catalan conjecture! And which one is the famous olympiad problem?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:05 pm  Back to top 
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pbornsztein
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#4
Well, to prove that there exists an infinite set of natural numbers such that the sum of any finite of its non-empty subsets is not a perfect power is not difficult using the chinese remainders theorem :

Start from .
Now, assume that we have defined such that the sum of any non empty set whose elements are from the 's is not a power. We numerate these sets from to . Let be the sum of the elements from the set numbered and .
Let be pairwise distinct primes such that mod [] for each (and is arbitrary)

From the chinese remainders theorem, there exists a positive integer such that mod[] for each .
Thus is divisible by but not by . It follows that is not a power for all . We then defined .

By induction, the above construction leads to an infinite set with the desired property.

But the question asked by Harazi seems more difficult.

Pierre.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:10 pm  Back to top 
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harazi
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#5
Yes, that was the famous olympiad problem. I gave this new problem to my math teacher (who, believe me, is really a genius!) and he could not solve it. He gave it to other teachers and none could find a solution. Heartwork, I am also blind and I cannot figure out how it follows from Catalan conjecture. And I strongly think that such a set does not exist. Here is another beautiful question: is there an infinite set of natural numbers with the property that the sum of the inverses of the sum of the elements from all non-empty and finite subsets is convergent?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:30 am  Back to top 
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Ravi B
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#6
harazi wrote:
is there an infinite set of natural numbers with the property that the sum of the inverses of the sum of the elements from all non-empty and finite subsets is convergent?

I think the answer is yes. As an example, let S be the set of powers of 4. For each nonnegative integer n, consider those finite subsets F of S whose maximum element is 4n. There are 2n such subsets F. For each such subset F, the sum of F is at least 4n. Hence the reciprocal of the sum of F is at most 1/4n. Because there are 2n such subsets F, the sum of the reciprocals of the sums of such subsets F is at most 1/2n. Summing over every nonnegative integer n gives a finite upper bound, namely 2.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:20 am  Back to top 
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harazi
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#7
Hello! Does anyone know whether the following result has been proved or disproved:
Given a number and some pairs of numbers such that where b is also a given number, the equation has only finitely many solutions in (x,y,m,n)? I imagine it is true, but too difficult to prove. Probably vess or Pierre know something? If the answer is yes, the problem is solved: there do not exists such a strange set.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:38 am  Back to top 
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#8
harazi wrote:
Given a number and some pairs of numbers such that where b is also a given number, the equation has only finitely many solutions in (x,y,m,n)?

This looks related:

Quote:
If , and , then |x|,|y|<\exp\exp\left((3m)^{10}n^{10n^3}|k|^{n^2}\right) (and a similar bound exchanging with ).

P. Ribenboim, Catalan's Conjecture, AMM 103, p. 529-538
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:57 pm  Back to top 
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harazi
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#9
Do you have the article? Would it be possible to attach it?

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:19 am  Back to top 
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Bojan Basic
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#10
I have the article, but I believe I can't attach it here because of copyright. However, if you give me your e-mail (by PM if you prefer) I would be glad to send the article.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:12 pm  Back to top 
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seamusoboyle
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#11
harazi wrote:
Hello! Does anyone know whether the following result has been proved or disproved:
Given a number and some pairs of numbers such that where b is also a given number, the equation has only finitely many solutions in (x,y,m,n)? I imagine it is true, but too difficult to prove. Probably vess or Pierre know something? If the answer is yes, the problem is solved: there do not exists such a strange set.


In this case, the gcd would have to be one-or-two, if it wasnt you could prove fermats last theorem with it!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:50 pm  Back to top 
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Bojan Basic
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#12
Re: related to a famous olimpiad problem
asked by harazi

harazi wrote:
Is there an infinite set of natural numbers such that the sum of the elements of any finite subset is a natural power? It is useless to say that I couldn't solve it, but all persons to whom I gave it didn' t manage to break it. Can you?


Even stronger assertion can be proven: there does not exist an infinite set of integers such that the sum of every two different elements is a power.

Suppose that such set exists, say . Write . Since is infinite, if we consider parity of all s, at least one of them (say, even , while the other case is completely analogous) appears infinitely many times. Select those elements: \{b_1,b_2,b_3,\dots\} = B\subseteq A, where , and further suppose that s are ordered such that i < j\Rightarrow m_i'\leqslant m_j'. We know that for all it must hold
\begin{array}{c} b_i + b_1 = c_i^{p_i} \\
b_i + b_2 = d_i^{q_i}\end{array},\quad(*)
(of course, ) that is
\begin{align*} c_i^{p_i} & = 2^{m_i'}(4l_i' + 1) + 2^{m_1'}(4l_1' + 1) = \\
& = \begin{cases} 2^{m_1'}\big(2^{m_i' - m_1'}(4l_i' + 1) + 4l_1' + 1\big), & \text{if }m_i' > m_1' \\
2^{m_1' + 1}(2l_i' + 2l_1' + 1), & \text{if }m_i' = m_1'\end{cases},\end{align*}

\begin{align*} d_i^{q_i} & = 2^{m_i'}(4l_i' + 1) + 2^{m_2'}(4l_2' + 1) = \\
& = \begin{cases} 2^{m_2'}\big(2^{m_i' - m_2'}(4l_i' + 1) + 4l_2' + 1\big), & \text{if }m_i' > m_2' \\
2^{m_2' + 1}(2l_i' + 2l_2' + 1), & \text{if }m_i' = m_2'\end{cases}.\end{align*}
Therefore, and , what means that there is only finitely many pairs . Further, from follows d_i^{q_i} - c_i^{p_i} = b_2 - b_1, and for fixed and this Thue equation has only finitely many solutions in and , and for there is again only finitely many solutions because the difference of two consecutive th power tends to infinity. That makes a total of only finitely many pairs , what is clearly a contradiction.

P. S. What famous olympiad problem is this related to?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:51 am  Back to top 
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Myth
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#13
It seems Thue equation involves terms of the same power only.
I believe finiteness of set of solutions is still an open question (at least my book of 1980 says so).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:59 am  Back to top 
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#14
Myth wrote:
I believe finiteness of set of solutions is still an open question (at least my book of 1980 says so).

This statement is known as the Pillai's Conjecture, and asks whether there is infinitely many solutions in quadruples .

The question is (of course) much easier for all the fixed, and that is all we need. You are, however, right that the latter does not follow from the Thue's theorem, but it is nevertheless correct by, for example, this reference; the work of Baker mentioned there is:

Baker, A., Bounds for the solutions of the hyperelliptic equation, Proc. Cambridge Philos. Soc. 65 (1969), 439–444.

Here is a review of that work from MathSciNet:

Quote:
Der Autor beweist folgende zwei Sätze über diophantische Gleichungen: Satz 1: (1) Sei y^m=a_0x^n+a_1x^{n-1}+\cdots+a_n mit , ; , ganz, wobei das Polynom auf der rechten Seite von (1) mindestens 2 einfache Nullstellen habe und sei . Dann gilt für jede ganzzahlige Lösung von (1), \max\{|x|,|y|\}<\exp\text{}\exp\{(5m)^{10}(n^{10n}H)^{n^2}\}. Satz 2: Ist und hat das Polynom auf der rechten Seite von (1) mindestens 3 einfache Lösungen, dann gehorchen alle ganzzahligen Lösungen von (1), \max\{|x|,|y|\}<\exp\text{}\exp\text{}\exp\{(n^{10n}H)^{n^2}\}.


My translation:

"The author proves the following two assertions about Diophantine equations: Assertion 1: (1) Let y^m=a_0x^n+a_1x^{n-1}+\cdots+a_n with , ; , integers, where the polynomial on the right side of (1) has at least 2 simple roots, and let . Then for the integer solution of (1) it holds \max\{|x|,|y|\}<\exp\text{}\exp\{(5m)^{10}(n^{10n}H)^{n^2}\}. Assertion 2: If and the polynomial on the right side of (1) has at least 3 simple roots, then for the integer solution of (1) it holds \max\{|x|,|y|\}<\exp\text{}\exp\text{}\exp\{(n^{10n}H)^{n^2}\}."

Actually, it was Siegel who was considering finiteness of set of solutions of many types of diophantine equations, and from his main result it follows:
If with , and if are given non-zero integers, then the equation has only finitely many solutions in integers.
However, I am not sure which paper of his this was proven in (I have only the above statement cited from the already mentioned Ribenboim's survey), and I therefore chose to cite Baker. (Furthermore, the result of Siegel did not include any bound neither on the number nor on the size of the eventual solutions, and Baker earned the Fields Medal for developing a method leading to effective bounds, one of which we have seen here.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:25 pm  Back to top 
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