Careers in Mathematics, Sponsored by Jane Street Capital

[Mr.Doe]

Is there a big competition between mathematicians that what to work in finance?For the posts I have read here ,I got the impression that there are few jobs in finance that are available for mathematicians.
This is opposite for what is happening in my country- all the biggest (and the best ) companys in finance cant wait for mathematicians to finish their studys at the university so they could work for them,espacialy the ones that major in finance and business.
But,also,only about 60 mathematicians per year finish their studys,including the ones that major in computing science,theoretical math and so..., not to mention that U.S. has about 50 times more people...
I would like to work in U.S. so I am want to know more about the labor market...

Regards

[plucesiar]

How does University of Waterloo stand in terms of having enough clout to be considered for an interview for a quant internship/job as compared to the big schools in the states?

In addition, how much programming do you need to know, and for what language?

Also, would an accounting background be of any help? I am planning to double major in accounting and math.

Thanks!

[MMopt]

[mikeymike]

[aznphatso]

I am currently a freshman at MIT exploring different major and career choices. My original intention was to declare Computer Science, a major I enjoy very much and offers what I believe would be flexible and varied career options (software engineering, product management in Silicon Valley all the way to consulting, finance, etc). I am currently considering a second major to double in, and I'm having a hard time deciding between Economics and Applied Math. Yes, I realize MIT has the Sloan school, but there are quite a lot of "fuzzy" classes in Sloan's Management Science degree track (Management Psychology, etc).

Assuming I went with CS and Applied Math, I'd still be taking a few Sloan classes geared towards preparing for a career as a quant, such as whatever class I can find that would get me started in stochastic calculus, etc.

Anyway, I guess my real question is, for a second major, which of the following would be most useful to a student seeking a quantitative analyst-type job?

-economics
-management science (MIT Sloan)
-applied math

Thanks in advance!

[Xevarion]

It depends on what exactly you want to do. If you want to work for a place like DE Shaw or Jane Street, it doesn't matter too much exactly what classes you take. You just need to be focused, have good analytical skills, work hard, etc. Even when I interviewed for Morgan Stanley, a big bank, the guy told me that it didn't really matter what you learned in classes, because what goes on in the finance world is leaps and bounds ahead of what's taught in undergraduate finance courses.

I'd say you should take what interests you. If you have a choice still, then go for something more quantitative, especially something that involves any kind of modeling or probability theory. If you don't mind sucking it up and taking a horrendously boring class, then go ahead and take some corporate finance classes or something. But it's not the number of finance classes you've taken that will make or break your applications to these companies. I think it's better if you do what interests you and therefore excel and show your true strengths. That will make more of an impression on recruiters than a long list of worthless and boring classes about binomial option pricing models and CAPM.

[Dominic Connor]

DEShaw are in the relatively small minority of firms who are largely indifferent to your topics of study.
I'm glad aznphatso managed to dodge the fuzzy courses, since they typically add bulk, not strength.

In another place (Slashdot.com) I became embroiled in a flame war when I pointed out that as a quant headhunter I was becoming increasingly suspicious of CS qualifications, and that a couple of mildly well known places have CS courses that we don't count as degrees of any kind. Some managers at top tier banks have flatly told us that they don't want to see CVs from CS people at all.
Since you enjoy CS, you might as well make the best of it and learn C++. Some people will suggest Java or another quiche language, ignore them, perhaps laughing gently as you do so. Signal processing should be on your shopping list.

For quant finance generally, applied maths are more useful, though if you take to signal processing some of the time series analysis which typically is to be found in economics is useful.

I'm generally with Xevarion that you should do courses you find interesting, with a bias towards those in which you feel you are stronger than your peers, though of course that correlates.
If you've got the right maths, then not only should you whizz through the binomial tree, but quickly realise its limitations in this field. CAPM is on many finance courses, though the most useful part of that is the insight into the many ways it goes wrong.

A good path is to get better at maths in general and then work through of Wilmott's big book of banking
http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Wilmott-Quantitative-Finance-Set/dp/0470018704/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202926834&sr=8-1

From the little I know of your skills, I think some form of algorithmic trading might be good fun, since it's high end s/w development (and occasionally h/w as well), and quite sexy at the moment.

[Myrmidon7328]

Hi, I'm currently a freshman, but I'm very interested in trying to become a trader.

On the Jane Street website, I saw that the ideal applicant would have to come from a top school. Would double majoring in computational and applied mathematics and mathematical economic analysis from Rice University be considered "top"?

[kally]

Getting an interview to begin with sometimes has to do with the degrees you've earned, but the Information Age is quickly helping employers find workers who match the skillset they need without pouring through an increasingly large pile of decreasingly meaningful resumes. In fact, that's a big part of the purpose of the new forum.

Interactive Math Resources

[John622]

Hi,
This is sort of a weird question but since there is a recruiter from in the industry, I would like to put it out.
I've been in a Financial Engineering PhD program at a tier 1 US university for about a year now. The mathematics is very interesting and is a good intersection of PDE, Probability, and CS. However, whenever I see the numerical application of my work in Bloomberg, I can't help but feel that all I'm doing is some how help a fund get better at gambling on the stock market. Then when this fund gets better at gambling, the other firms have to hire better quants to improve their models. It's like a "modeling arms race". When I look back at history in the longer run, I can' explain to myself how has the advances in quantitative finance in the last 25 years made the world a better place.

Sorry if this seems rude, but it's been seriously bothering me for quite a while now. My alternative would be to pursue something in Operations Research or switch into Mechanical or Electrical Engineering. My understanding is that high level Mechanics is quite math heavy too?

John

[gauss202]

No need to post the same thing twice John: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=204998

[marko avila]

Hello
Im currently studying my second year of university (my "major" is math). Recently ive been thinking about what i want to do with my life once college is done. A couple of days ago i found this article on from the American Mathematical Society called "A view on the transition from academia to finance" by Catherine Oneil. In this article she describes what her job is like as a quantitative analyst at D. E. Shaw and i must say i found it very appealing to me. From the work enviorment she describes to the excitement of living in NYC, i think being a "quant" is what im looking for in a job. Anyway studying in a university in Mexico which is probably completely unkown to any firm in the US and not being an american citizen makes getting this job look pretty hard ; still there must be a way (legal obviously) to get a shot, isnt there?
I lived in the states for quite some time (7 years) while my dad was studying to get his phd from Miami University. So maybe that helps in some way to get my citizenship or at least to be able to work in the US legally. I would definitely have to get a Phd or a masters degree at a top college right? I've been looking at the mathmatical finance programs from Columbia and Chicago University. They seem very interesting. Anyway my question is (finally!! ) :
Is it possible to get a job(particularly as a "quant") in the US if youre initially not a citizen and in wich ways can this be done?

Anyway many thanks in advance for your feedback.

[orl]