Author
Message
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
Should we keep on trying to explore space? Or should we spend the money on trying to fix problems on Earth?
It's a long-debated issue, but I have a healthy opinion on it: yes, we should keep exploring space.
I think it's just not really about any survival tactics or trying to improve technologies here on Earth - it's simply about the human desire for exploration.
Sure, Earth has a lot of problems, like starvation of the poor - but why should that stop us from exploring space? We already spend enough money as it is trying to fix our problems, and it's not just a problem of money, it's a problem of political will.
(e.g. There are some religious fundamentalists that are firmly opposed to space travel because they believe it contravenes God's will for people to be subservient and faithful to him, like the tower of Babel did.)
Of course, I'm talking actual exploration here, not the stuff that happens at the ISS, which is just sedentary research. I'm talking sending probes and eventually people "out there", perhaps to explore new planets or new stars.
What do you think?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:26 pm
Ihatepie
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 1894 Location: Southwest, CT
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
I personally would love to see a permanent moon base within my lifetime. Colonizing the moon would not only provide a new frontier, but would get rid of our overpopulation crisis, and give a new area for scientists to use their knowledge (basically how to make the moon get an atmosphere, good soil, water, etc.) Plus, almost anyone can do a backflip there.
_________________ 2010 Goals: ARML-7 AMC10- 144 AMC12- 126 AIME- 8 USAJMO-14?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:34 pm
worthawholebean
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 2164 Location: New Haven, CT
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
Space exploration is one of those places where we need to take the "long view." Some may say that it does nothing to improve life on earth, but they are too shortsighted. The potential benefits are just too great to stop right here, to give up. It''s too late at night for me to go into what I think are the underlying philosophical issues.
_________________
If you need problems added to the resources section (use
this guide ) or find typos in the resources section or a problem I post, send me a PM.
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:56 pm
12markkram34
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 508 Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
What are some of the potential benefits? How would they balance the costs?
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:43 pm
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
12markkram34 wrote:
What are some of the potential benefits? How would they balance the costs?
Well, let's forget potential benefits for a moment and see what benefits it's already given us:
Better health care
Some materials we use everyday - where do you think chip bag wrappers and microwaves came from?
A better understanding of Earth itself
Some new theories in physics
Further potential benefits include a permanent moon colony. Yes. For sure. And at a fraction of the cost it takes to have a war in Iraq!
Just make sure those "short-sighted conservatives" don't get in the way...
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:07 pm
worthawholebean
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 09 May 2005 Posts: 2164 Location: New Haven, CT
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
I don't think any of the arguments above are valid - a colony on the moon is not yet a good idea, and the other goals are either exaggerated or could have been achieved more cheaply without the added baggage of space exploration. I think the idea has its own merits, though. If we're talking as percentage of world GDP, space exploration is a pittance. Even as a percentage of US GDP. Eventually, larger-scale stuff will be viable, but we have to start now. The inspirational value is more difficult to quantify, but it exists.
_________________
If you need problems added to the resources section (use
this guide ) or find typos in the resources section or a problem I post, send me a PM.
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 pm
zapi2007
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 1278 Location: San Marino, CA
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
I thought microwaves were invented when a person realized that the bar of chocolate in his pocket melted?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/10/04/nasa.everyday/index.html
Here's a site with a list of inventions that came out as a result of space.
_________________ "There is only one difference between a madman and me. The madman thinks he is sane. I know I am mad." -Salvador Dali
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:47 pm
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
zapi2007 wrote:
I thought microwaves were invented when a person realized that the bar of chocolate in his pocket melted?
Sorry, wrong invention.
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:08 pm
ZetaX
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 6138 Location: München
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
Ihatepie wrote:
I personally would love to see a permanent moon base within my lifetime. Colonizing the moon would not only provide a new frontier, but would get rid of our overpopulation crisis, and give a new area for scientists to use their knowledge (basically how to make the moon get an atmosphere, good soil, water, etc.) Plus, almost anyone can do a backflip there.
I think you are getting some things wrong. Terraforming the moon is out of reach (not only for this century), if not impossible, and colonizing it means having some bases with 5 till some thousend people on it, thus not solving any overpopulation problem (there in fact is no overpopulation problem in any western state).
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:53 pm
12markkram34
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 03 Jun 2007 Posts: 508 Location: Hilo, Hawaii
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
That's a good reason, but are there activities on Earth that have similarly stimulated technological advancement?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:43 pm
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
ZetaX wrote:
(there in fact is no overpopulation problem in any western state).
That's... correct, actually. But we should still try to rectify the problem in developing countries.
And if we can't terraform the Moon, what about Mars? Might that happen within the next 60 years?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:03 pm
Ihatepie
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 1894 Location: Southwest, CT
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
ZetaX wrote:
Ihatepie wrote:
I personally would love to see a permanent moon base within my lifetime. Colonizing the moon would not only provide a new frontier, but would get rid of our overpopulation crisis, and give a new area for scientists to use their knowledge (basically how to make the moon get an atmosphere, good soil, water, etc.) Plus, almost anyone can do a backflip there.
I think you are getting some things wrong. Terraforming the moon is out of reach (not only for this century), if not impossible, and colonizing it means having some bases with 5 till some thousend people on it, thus not solving any overpopulation problem (there in fact is no overpopulation problem in any western state).
No I don't think I am. I never said any of those things. I only said I wanted a permanent moon base within my lifetime. I know that terraforming and completely colonizing it are out of reach. (at least within the century)
Also,I do think it could help solve the overpopulation problem. In a few hundred years, when we actually have the technology to completely colonize the moon, we could have some displaced people go there, solving our overpopulation crisis. (Note that there isn't much of a problem now with it, but there will be in the future.) But we can never get even close to these things if we don't start working on it. I might not see results in my life time, but over time, humanity as a whole will benefit.
_________________ 2010 Goals: ARML-7 AMC10- 144 AMC12- 126 AIME- 8 USAJMO-14?
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:22 pm
chrischris
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 13 Nov 2007 Posts: 182
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
I honestly do not care about problems that can't be solved, or won't even arise, within my lifetime.
I'm not shortsighted, just not immortal.
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:15 pm
JBL
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 10779 Location: Brooklyn, NY or Cambridge, MA
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
The problem with overpopulation is the distribution of a finite amount of resources ; lack of physical space on which to live is irrelevant at the world scale. The idea that we will be able to live sustainably on the moon is silly; the idea that it makes more sense to do that then, say, to increase population density in Utah or the Australian outback is really strange.
_________________Joel
Hi Deeps! <3
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:34 am
nobelium
P versus NP
Offline Joined: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 36
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
In my opinion,we should continue space exploration.To solve a problem, one cannot divert all the energy to its solution .Space exploration may bring out facts that may help mankind in the long run.
_________________वन्दे मातरम!
यह देश हमारा है,इसकी रक्षा करना हमारा कर्तव्य है!
Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:46 am
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
JBL wrote:
The idea that we will be able to live sustainably on the moon is silly.
And people thought that machines flying was silly, 100 years ago.
And if not the Moon, how about Mars? We need to start somewhere .
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:48 pm
JBL
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 04 Jul 2003 Posts: 10779 Location: Brooklyn, NY or Cambridge, MA
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
How about Earth?
Edit: Also, your rejoinder is just wrong: kites and hot air balloons have been in use for more than 2000 years, according to Wikipedia , and the first human glider flight was apparently in the 9th century CE. The first flight by a steerable aircraft was in the 1850s. A moon colony that could support enough human life so as to "help solve the overpopulation problem" is to current space flight technology as a 747 is to a helium balloon.
_________________Joel
Hi Deeps! <3
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:00 pm
sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 300
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
JBL wrote:
How about Earth?
But we've already finished here. Sure it won't be sustainable in the long run, but what I mean is that "we need to start extraterrestrial exploration somewhere".
Quote:
Edit: Also, your rejoinder is just wrong: kites and hot air balloons have been in use for more than 2000 years, according to Wikipedia , and the first human glider flight was apparently in the 9th century CE. The first flight by a steerable aircraft was in the 1850s. A moon colony that could support enough human life so as to "help solve the overpopulation problem" is to current space flight technology as a 747 is to a helium balloon.
I meant heavier-than-air flight, but alright.
And I didn't say that the moon colony had to solve the overpopulation problem immediately when it was built, or directly help in any way. But if we were really able to build a self-sufficient colony, we'd learn more about how to recycle resources here on Earth.
Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:15 pm
ZetaX
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 6138 Location: München
Not_yet_rated
Poor (Spam)
Poor (Spam)
Below average
Below average
Average
Average
Good
Good
Very good
Very good
Excellent
To rate posts you must be logged in
It's not like the problem here on earth is a lack of some technology. What fails here are politics and the people itself. Any argument of type "space colonialisation will solve our current ressource/recycling/clima/population/whatever problems" is just wrong, as such a thing can be archieved much easier and much cheaper with current technology, but just no one does (and the colonies will give them no reason to start doing so!).
The only good argument for colonies in the short run is curiousity. In the very long run (some thousend years maybe), ressources may come into play, but not for current issues.
Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:58 am
Display posts from previous: All Posts 1 Day 7 Days 2 Weeks 1 Month 3 Months 6 Months 1 Year Sort by: Post Time Post Subject Author Ascending Descending