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Quickster94
Yang-Mills Theory
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Infinite Series Expansion
Wondering what people think of this problem:
The fraction can be written as an infinite series. Find the sum of the first four terms of the series expansion for and
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:11 pm
AIME15
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Online Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 8616 Location: Pleasanton, TX
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Probably a nicer way...
Solution
is the formula for infinite geometric series...
and
, which is the common ratio.
If
, then this is
, so
.
If
, then this is
, so
.
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:25 pm
Quickster94
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Vermont
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Right, but that formula only works for right? At both of those cases isn't within those values...
Does anyone think the wording is sort of ambiguous?
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:08 pm
randomguy64
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 138 Location: California
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Erm...if r isn't within those values, the sum would be either positive or negative infinity (or zero, if a is zero).
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:05 pm
AndrewTom
Navier-Stokes Equations
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Hi. Using partial fractions, or by inspection,
, valid for ,
.
But this is not valid for or
???
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:37 am
fishythefish
Yang-Mills Theory
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How about this?
When , the fraction simplifies to , which can be written:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When , the fraction simplifies to , which can be written:
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:10 pm
10000th User
Navier-Stokes Equations
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@ confused audience: read the question carefully. It's not the whole series, hence convergence has nothing to do with this problem.
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:28 pm
randomguy64
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 138 Location: California
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Convergence has EVERYTHING to do with this problem.
The only way the question makes sense is if 2/(x^2-3x+2)=a+ar+ar^r+... and 0 < |r|< 1. If not, 2/(x^2-3x+2) must equal zero, and obviously x=-1 and x=-2 aren't roots, so that can't be it. Also, the fraction obviously doesn't form an infinite series, since there is absolutely no way to get the next term while the "x=-1 and x=-2" part makes sense.
@fishy: How does that work? More accurately, how did you get that formula out of the fraction given?
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:22 pm
10000th User
Navier-Stokes Equations
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randomguy64 wrote:
Convergence has EVERYTHING to do with this problem.
The only way the question makes sense is if 2/(x^2-3x+2)=a+ar+ar^r+... and 0 < |r|< 1. If not, 2/(x^2-3x+2) must equal zero, and obviously x=-1 and x=-2 aren't roots, so that can't be it. Also, the fraction obviously doesn't form an infinite series, since there is absolutely no way to get the next term while the "x=-1 and x=-2" part makes sense.
@fishy: How does that work? More accurately, how did you get that formula out of the fraction given?
Quickster94 wrote:
Find the sum of the first four terms of the series expansion for and
You absolutely do not need the concept of convergence to answer this question. Read the question, it's asking for the sum of the FIRST FOUR TERMS. Did I make myself clear?
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Disclaimer : I'll revive old threads if: 1) something ambiguous in the solution or wrong argument, 2) no solution, 3) I got new insight to input.
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:08 pm
azjps
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Posts: 951 Location: NJ
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That point is moot because the question is vague as written, as an "infinite series" implies that the desired fraction is the convergence of the partial sums of a certain sequence, of which there are certainly many sequences that could apply (eg, one can easily make the first four terms sum to whatever one likes - what's wrong with, say, the infinite sequence ?). I would presume that something like "power [Maclaurin] series" was intended, in which case see AndrewTom's post (though that series indeed does not converge).
Last edited by azjps on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:51 am
randomguy64
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 21 Aug 2009 Posts: 138 Location: California
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10000th User wrote:
You absolutely do not need the concept of convergence to answer this question. Read the question, it's asking for the sum of the FIRST FOUR TERMS. Did I make myself clear?
How are you planning to find the first four terms without realizing that the infinite series is a converging one, and therefore use the formula for it?
@fishythefish: ignore my previous question; I figured it out.
@azjps: you're right...
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:14 pm
10000th User
Navier-Stokes Equations
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azjps wrote:
That point is moot because the question is vague as written, as an "infinite series" implies that the desired fraction is the convergence of the partial sums of a certain sequence, of which there are certainly many sequences that could apply (eg, one can easily make the first four terms sum to whatever one likes - what's wrong with, say, the infinite sequence ?). I would presume that something like "power [Maclaurin] series" was intended, in which case see AndrewTom's post (though that series indeed does not converge).
You do have a valuable point and this is perhaps what randomguy64 may be trying to say in a not-so-clear way.
Using power series, we could define a new function , where is the first four terms of the power series . Finding and is now a feasible thing.
Quickster94: if the question is from an old book, it is possibly implied that the infinite series 'converges wherever its base point might be at'. Power series is usually the choice for representing a real function and thus, you can follow AndrewTom's series expansions.
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Disclaimer : I'll revive old threads if: 1) something ambiguous in the solution or wrong argument, 2) no solution, 3) I got new insight to input.
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:11 pm
atomicwedgie
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Los Angeles
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Re: Infinite Series Expansion
Quickster94 wrote:
Wondering what people think of this problem:
The fraction can be written as an infinite series. Find the sum of the first four terms of the series expansion for and
There is only one ambiguity in this question, and that is the nature of the "infinite series." A function could have a variety of infinite series representations.
That said, however, it may be assumed that the problem is asking for the appropriate power series representation; i.e.,
for suitable real constants .
If we make this assumption, then the problem is completely unambiguous. Since
it follows that
.
Since
,
we find
.
Thus as a formal power series the given function has coefficients of the form . We are not concerned with convergence because we are not interested in evaluating the power series in its entirety. All we are being asked to do is compute a partial sum of the formal power series:
.
It is a straightforward exercise to compute and . Again, it doesn't matter that the series is divergent for these values, because we are not trying to equate it to the value of at or .
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:30 am
fishythefish
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 822 Location: Unknown, with known velocity
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Debate over convergence aside, I'm still wondering what you all think of my solution. The question did not imply that we had to find the general expansion for the fraction, so I plugged in the values of first, and then used infinite geometric series that I know to equal the results. After that, finding the first four terms is trivial.
BTW: Using this method, you can make the series converge.
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I am NOBODY. NOBODY is PERFECT. Therefore, I am PERFECT.
There are 3 types of people in the world. Those who can count and those who can't.
ATTENTION ALL CALCOHOLICS!!! Know your limits. Don't drink and derive.
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:05 pm
Quickster94
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Vermont
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This is interesting
So it seems there's a lot of ambiguity about the question, which is what I thought. Anyway, "official solution" is problem one of below link:
http://www.vtmathcoalition.org/talent-search/TS0910Solutions1.pdf
Can anyone prove that this is the only solution or that more than one solution exists?
I feel like there must be more than one infinite series that sums to that in closed form...
_________________ May the Math Force Be With You!
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:47 pm
atomicwedgie
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 168 Location: Los Angeles
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Quickster94 wrote:
This is interesting
So it seems there's a lot of ambiguity about the question, which is what I thought. Anyway, "official solution" is problem one of below link:
http://www.vtmathcoalition.org/talent-search/TS0910Solutions1.pdf
Can anyone prove that this is the only solution or that more than one solution exists?
I feel like there must be more than one infinite series that sums to that in closed form...
Well, as I already mentioned, there are any number of "infinite series" representations of the given function--Fourier series, Laurent series, power series...the particular series expansion that was employed in the solution is a type of power series. One could see it as an expansion in powers of the reciprocal of x.
Their expansion is no more "correct" than the one I provided in my previous post. If the question had originally asked for x=-2 only, then some justification could be made in that the series provided in their solution is convergent for such a value. But at x = -1, neither power series is convergent.
It's a badly worded question, no doubt.
Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:47 pm
Eulers_Apprentice
Hodge Conjecture
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Can somebody explain how the infinite series in the "real solution" is equal to the fraction?
Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:46 pm
Quickster94
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 598 Location: Vermont
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They arrive at it using polynomial long division.
I don't really have the LaTeX skills to show out the work for that, so if more explanation is needed, some1 else will have to step in
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:02 pm
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