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Yongyi781
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 2160 Location: Bedford, MA
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It appears as though the maximum occurs when , which will make the resulting value look slightly ugly.
_________________ "quoted and followed by itself is a quine" quoted and followed by itself is a quine.
"yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
(Almost) Red MOP 2009
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:46 pm
CatalystOfNostalgia
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1727 Location: Lexington, MA
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Guys guys see USAMO 1998 problem 3 for that part of the problem.
also yongyi for that functional equation dude you probably can't just randomly assume something is continuous? (edit: ok i just realized you saw this too) often this trivializes stuff (for example, if you get to something like f(x+y)=f(x)+f(y), from which you can immediately conclude f(x)=kx if f is continuous), and it doesn't give any insight as to how the proof would work if you don't make such assumptions. in general, partial credit is only given to work that is, no matter how nontrivial or interesting, actually useful for completing a solution (i may be quoting zhai but that is probably ok). that is, if you're going to get five points, you should be able to just extend the same ideas a little further to finish the solution.
just my two cents on that...but i'm not in charge.
_________________ ~Carl 白人看不懂
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:53 pm
ocha
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 556
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CatalystOfNostalgia wrote:
Guys guys see USAMO 1998 problem 3 for that part of the problem.
Would you mind telling us how that helps? That question places a lower bound on the product of , but we are looking for an upper bound...
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:13 pm
Altheman
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 28 Jun 2005 Posts: 6121 Location: Illinois
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wow I was stupid, I thought that 4 was hard because you couldn't maximize the terms individually. So I just sorta gave up. I got the two upper bounds that ocha got but I thought they were useless because that wouldn't contribute to the upper bound on the product.
Then the problem is pretty straightforward.
Let for Then ; . WLOG . Then .
Then
durr for assuming the problem was harder than it was...
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:12 pm
CatalystOfNostalgia
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1727 Location: Lexington, MA
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Oh hmm I seem to have misread it...never mind.
_________________ ~Carl 白人看不懂
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Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:28 pm
Differ
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 355 Location: California
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CatalystOfNostalgia wrote:
Guys guys see USAMO 1998 problem 3 for that part of the problem.
also yongyi for that functional equation dude you probably can't just randomly assume something is continuous? (edit: ok i just realized you saw this too) often this trivializes stuff (for example, if you get to something like f(x+y)=f(x)+f(y), from which you can immediately conclude f(x)=kx if f is continuous), and it doesn't give any insight as to how the proof would work if you don't make such assumptions. in general, partial credit is only given to work that is, no matter how nontrivial or interesting, actually useful for completing a solution (i may be quoting zhai but that is probably ok). that is, if you're going to get five points, you should be able to just extend the same ideas a little further to finish the solution.
just my two cents on that...but i'm not in charge.
Well, getting continuity is pretty trivial so I think the partial credit was warranted.
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:12 pm
jevgeniy
P versus NP
Offline Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 35 Location: Riga, Latvia
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ghjk , did you receive my second PM about Problem 3 ?
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:53 pm
ghjk
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 859 Location: Anaheim,CA
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Problems for Round 2 :
Problem 1 :
Given .
Prove that:
Problen 2:
Solve the following system of equations in real numbers:
Problem 3:
Given the quadratic equation . We know that with every real numbers , we always can find a real number y such that . Find maximum value of
Problem 4:
Given x,y,z are positive real numbers satisfying:
Find the minimum value of:
The deadline of submission is on Friday next week! Remember that if you can generalize the problems and prove them successfully, you get 2 bonus points for each one.Good luck and enjoy the problems!I probably will make another thread and have moderator poll it for me as a place to discuss solutions and comments/suggestions. Anyway, hopefully more than 44 people will submit solutions this time.
@jevgeniy: I'm sorry for miscalculating your points on Round 1. You should get 16 points instead of 14. But I couldn't edit my post anymore apparently. So pleased wait for moderators to edit it(I'll PM to let them know)
_________________Try your best....do over your best!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:27 pm
enndb0x
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 20 Jan 2009 Posts: 517 Location: Kosovo ,Norway
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ghjk ,you did not post the first round solutions yet.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:59 am
CatalystOfNostalgia
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1727 Location: Lexington, MA
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Differ wrote:
Well, getting continuity is pretty trivial so I think the partial credit was warranted.
Um, what? Proving stuff is continuous is in general pretty hard, especially when you don't know what the function is -- in particular it requires epsilon-delta.
_________________ ~Carl 白人看不懂
MELODIOUS
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:08 am
Differ
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 355 Location: California
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CatalystOfNostalgia wrote:
Differ wrote:
Well, getting continuity is pretty trivial so I think the partial credit was warranted.
Um, what? Proving stuff is continuous is in general pretty hard, especially when you don't know what the function is -- in particular it requires epsilon-delta.
You know, I think that you should dig into the functional equation a bit before commenting.
The domain of is .
So is the inverse of . Thus, is surjective and as it is monotonic, it is continuous.
Last edited by Differ on Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:09 am
Yongyi781
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 2160 Location: Bedford, MA
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Blah I was being stupid....
*smacks self into wall*
_________________ "quoted and followed by itself is a quine" quoted and followed by itself is a quine.
"yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
(Almost) Red MOP 2009
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:53 am
1=2
Birch & Swinnerton Dyer
Offline Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 5825 Location: One Brownie Point!
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It's not healthy to smack yourself into walls...
Also problem 2 inspired me to make a similar problem.
_________________
Hmm... apparently quoting Disney movies gets me muted on FTW.
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:17 pm
zapi2007
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 22 Sep 2007 Posts: 1274 Location: San Marino, CA
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sorry ghjk, i'll have to pull out
i'm gone way too much (as in i missed last week (no internet, out of town) will miss this week, and will miss the next 1 and 1/2 weeks (out of town again))
_________________ "There is only one difference between a madman and me. The madman thinks he is sane. I know I am mad." -Salvador Dali
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:17 pm
anonyme93
New Member
Offline Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 1 Location: the other side
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hello!!
i'm a new member....i'd like to participate in this competition ...so can i be with you???
Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:06 am
CatalystOfNostalgia
Navier-Stokes Equations
Offline Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1727 Location: Lexington, MA
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Differ wrote:
You know, I think that you should dig into the functional equation a bit before commenting.
The domain of is .
So is the inverse of . Thus, is surjective and as it is monotonic, it is continuous.
Ok you're right, I wouldn't have expected it to be that "trivial" but doesn't the fact that surjective + monotonic => continuous ultimately require epsilon-delta anyway? I mean, intuitively this is pretty obvious but I can't really see any way to do this rigorously...after all how else would one deal with continuity? I guess it shouldn't be that difficult of a proof regardless, but that was my original point, again I hadn't expected it to be as easy, a lot of the time people try (unsuccessfully) to prove things like this and it ends up being a lot of handwaving. And sorry again if I'm wrong yet again - I'm not too experienced with this epsilon-delta stuff.
_________________ ~Carl 白人看不懂
MELODIOUS
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:59 pm
Differ
Riemann Hypothesis
Offline Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 355 Location: California
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CatalystOfNostalgia wrote:
doesn't the fact that surjective + monotonic => continuous ultimately require epsilon-delta anyway?
That is true. The proof is a basic extension of the limit definition.
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:10 pm
hurdler
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 686 Location: Hoover, Alabama
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Just to clarify, is each week's solutions due at midnight of Friday (which would be in 3 1/2 hours right now)?
_________________ goals: usamo (if made) - have fun
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:35 pm
echinodermata
Poincare Conjecture
Offline Joined: 27 Feb 2009 Posts: 183
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That would still depend on time zone.
_________________nihil maiestati simplicitate detrahitur
Nothing is detracted from majesty by simplicity.
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:19 pm
ghjk
Yang-Mills Theory
Offline Joined: 03 Dec 2005 Posts: 859 Location: Anaheim,CA
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The deadline of submission is at midnight today(you just need to follow your local time). And I need much much more submissions than the number I have now. Common people! Signed up but not join is failure!
_________________Try your best....do over your best!
Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:26 pm
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