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Distinct powers of 3, 4, and 5
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sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
Riemann Hypothesis

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#1
Distinct powers of 3, 4, and 5

Prove that every positive integer can be written as the sum of distinct integer powers of 3, 4, and 5.
(e.g. 29 = 3^3 + 3^0 + 4^0, 145 = 5^3 + 4^2 + 3^1 + 5^0. For the purposes of this problem, the zero powers of 3, 4, and 5 are distinct.)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:09 pm  Back to top 
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azjps
Yang-Mills Theory
Yang-Mills Theory

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#2
Let f(n) denote the nth smallest number that may be expressed as a power of one of \{3,4,5\}, so f(1) = f(2) = f(3) = 1. Let P_n(k) = 1 if k may be written as the sum of the elements of a subset of \{f(1), \ldots, f(n - 1)\} [eg, satisfies conditions of problem statement], and 0 otherwise; then we claim by strong induction that P_n(k) = 1 for all k satisfying 0 < k \le 2f(n), and n > 1. Obviously, if P_m(k') = 1, and k - k' may be written as a sum of the elements of a subset of \{f(m + 1), \ldots, f(n)\}, then P_n(k) = 1.

Let g_{k,n}(s) = k - \left[\sum_{i = 1}^s f(n - i)\right]; if 0 < g_{k,n}(s) \le 2f\big(n - (s + 1)\big), then by inductive hypothesis, P_{n - (s + 1)}\left(g_{k,n}(s)\right) = 1, so P_{n - 1}(k) = 1. Note that\begin{align*}f(n) \le 3f(n - 1), 4f(n - 2), 5f(n - 3), 9f(n - 4),\end{align*} and writing out our result for s = 0,1,2,3 gives:\begin{align*}0 \le g_{k,n}(0) \le 2f(n - 1) \ & \Longrightarrow\ P_{n - 1}(k) = 1,\ \forall k: 0 < k \le 2f(n - 1) \\...whence P_{n - 1}(k) = 1 for all 0 < k \le f(n). Furthermore, for all k satisfying f(n) < k \le 2f(n), we have P_{n - 1}(k - f(n)) = 1 and thus P_n(k) = 1, and our problem statement is true.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:03 pm  Back to top 
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sdkudrgn88
Riemann Hypothesis
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#3
Okay, since I don't completely understand your solution (I'm only a junior, you're already in university... Mr. Green), I'll try and analyze it:

azjps wrote:
Let f(n) denote the nth smallest number that may be expressed as a power of one of \{3,4,5\}, so f(1) = f(2) = f(3) = 1. Let P_n(k) = 1 if k may be written as the sum of the elements of a subset of \{f(1), \ldots, f(n - 1)\} [eg, satisfies conditions of problem statement], and 0 otherwise; then we claim by strong induction that P_n(k) = 1 for all k satisfying 0 < k \le 2f(n), and n > 1. Obviously, if P_m(k') = 1, and k - k' may be written as a sum of the elements of a subset of \{f(m + 1), \ldots, f(n)\}, then P_n(k) = 1.


This part I understand. You're defining the functions, etc., and claiming that for some f(n), any integer up to twice that number should always be summable as the f of numbers less than it. I also get the k' part.

Quote:
Let g_{k,n}(s) = k - \left[\sum_{i = 1}^s f(n - i)\right];


So for some integer k, g_{k,n}(s) is k - f(n - 1) - f(n - 2), etc. down to f(n - s).

Quote:
if 0 < g_{k,n}(s) \le 2f\big(n - (s + 1)\big), then by inductive hypothesis, P_{n - (s + 1)}\left(g_{k,n}(s)\right) = 1, so P_{n - 1}(k) = 1.


Ah, so g_{k,n}(s) is the k' we referred to earlier? Okay, continuing...

Quote:
Note that
\begin{align*}f(n) \le 3f(n - 1), 4f(n - 2), 5f(n - 3), 9f(n - 4),\end{align*}


Okay, I get that.

Quote:
and writing out our result for s = 0,1,2,3 gives:
\begin{align*}0 \le g_{k,n}(0) \le 2f(n - 1) \ & \Longrightarrow\ P_{n - 1}(k) = 1,\ \forall k: 0 < k \le 2f(n - 1) \\...


Okay, this stuff is just calculations...

I don't understand where the restrictions come from. It's probably something simple that I can't see, but I can't see it...

*edit* wait, no, I see it now. Because g_{k_n}(s) is the subtraction of some terms, you need to add those terms back in order to provide the correct inequality.

Quote:
whence P_{n - 1}(k) = 1 for all 0 < k \le f(n). Furthermore, for all k satisfying f(n) < k \le 2f(n), we have P_{n - 1}(k - f(n)) = 1 and thus P_n(k) = 1, and our problem statement is true.


This part is just proof of the induction.

Alright, so there are two parts that I don't get... if somebody could please explain them, I'd be much obliged.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:56 pm  Back to top 
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azjps
Yang-Mills Theory
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#4
Sorry for the rather late response, also I'm only a freshmen Smile

I used a bit of condensed notation to avoid having to re-write the statements, esp P just being that the proposition is true, so my apologies for that (though reading "and therefore the statement is true for this value of k" fifteen times might be tiresome also Smile ).

Quote:
Ah, so g_{k,n}(s) is the k' we referred to earlier? Okay, continuing...


Yes, because we have k = f(n-1) + f(n-2) + \cdots + f(n-s) + some term for which we know can be written as a smaller sum of powers (by induction, some subset of \{f(1), \ldots, f(n-s-1)\}). We want to use some larger values of \{f(n-1), \ldots, f(n-s) to "shoot" k into a region where we already know numbers can be written as a sum of powers, and we have some strong enough bounds on f(n-1), \ldots, f(n-4) to be able to do this. The four computations show that any k from 0 < k \le f(n) will work, and then the rest is easy.

Is there any part that needs clarification? (I presume you answered your own question)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:10 pm  Back to top 
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