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fleeting_guest
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#21
nonIMO wrote:
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This [IMO maximum 252 pts] team was from the USA and consisted of Jeremy Bem, Aleksandr Khazanov, Jacob Lurie, Noam Shazeer, Stephen Wang, and Jonathan Weinstein.


Yes, I knew this. BTW, it looked like the world's combined team (pay attention at names of Aleksandr Khazanov, Jacob Lurie, Noam Shazeer, Stephen Wang).


Lurie and Weinstein sound like names of North American-born Jews. N.Shazeer sounds like an immigrant or child of immigrants from Israel (also Jewish). Khazanov is Russian, and therefore (in the US) quite likely to be Jewish, although one cannot know from the names alone. Wang is probably an immigrant or child of immigrants from somewhere Chinese (I am guessing that US Chinese of more than 2 generations are less likely to work on mathematics, than more recent immigrants).

I think the pattern is more or less the same for Canada, Australia, and other countries with high immigration, except that there would be even fewer participants from the native majority, a higher proportion of Asian or East European immigrants and a lower but still disproportionate number of Jews (both recent and earlier-generation immigrants). In South America, the Caribbean and formerly imperial parts of Africa, one would expect the IMO teams have a disproportionate number of immigrants from East Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam) and India (in British Commonwealth countries). If I remember, the Canadian IMO sometimes has 0-1 Anglo-Saxon team members.

If China becomes more of a magnet for business, you can expect, one day, that some expatriate from the Western intelligentsia will have a mathematically capable child who makes the top level of CMO or China IMO team.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:35 am  Back to top 
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nonIMO
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#22
fleeting_guest wrote:
nonIMO wrote:
Quote:
This [IMO maximum 252 pts] team was from the USA and consisted of Jeremy Bem, Aleksandr Khazanov, Jacob Lurie, Noam Shazeer, Stephen Wang, and Jonathan Weinstein.


Yes, I knew this. BTW, it looked like the world's combined team (pay attention at names of Aleksandr Khazanov, Jacob Lurie, Noam Shazeer, Stephen Wang).


Lurie and Weinstein sound like names of North American-born Jews. N.Shazeer sounds like an immigrant or child of immigrants from Israel (also Jewish). Khazanov is Russian, and therefore (in the US) quite likely to be Jewish, although one cannot know from the names alone. Wang is probably an immigrant or child of immigrants from somewhere Chinese (I am guessing that US Chinese of more than 2 generations are less likely to work on mathematics, than more recent immigrants).

I think the pattern is more or less the same for Canada, Australia, and other countries with high immigration, except that there would be even fewer participants from the native majority, a higher proportion of Asian or East European immigrants and a lower but still disproportionate number of Jews (both recent and earlier-generation immigrants). In South America, the Caribbean and formerly imperial parts of Africa, one would expect the IMO teams have a disproportionate number of immigrants from East Asia (China, Korea, Vietnam) and India (in British Commonwealth countries). If I remember, the Canadian IMO sometimes has 0-1 Anglo-Saxon team members.

If China becomes more of a magnet for business, you can expect, one day, that some expatriate from the Western intelligentsia will have a mathematically capable child who makes the top level of CMO or China IMO team.


Well, honestly speaking, I must recognize, that one my argument has effectively been beaten. Confused It was weak, because I didn't know, what part do immigrants make in the US population. I agree with fleeting_guest, who knows such things better.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:57 pm  Back to top 
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fleeting_guest
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#23
I think that what I wrote is in agreement with your posting: at most 1 of the 6 people (boys) in the IMO team from the USA in that year is from the "native white majority" (i.e. European Christian origins), and between 1 and 3 of them are immigrants. Sometimes the immigrants on US/Canadian/Austrialian/European teams do not even have citizenship in the country that they represent in the IMO. The proportion of Jewish students is also impressively high, even in countries such as US and Canada where most of the Jewish population are not immigrants and have lived there for several generations.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:35 pm  Back to top 
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Yossarian
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#24
Armo wrote:
Hey, our team had such problems too, we came there with 5 airplanes changing and waiting in Cuba.In Cuba it was just terrible because it was after huricanne and there wasn't any air conditioner. So I think all the teams had such problems.


Yeah, I believe a lot of countries had flight problems. Here's our story. On the way there, We went from Singapore to Hong Kong, then to San Francisco, then to Mexico City, then to Merida. Total journey was more than 30 hours. As you can see, our day 1 wasn't very strong. No one from our team did Q1! In fact, I believe we are the highest ranked country with a single digit Q1 score. Most of our team were tired and sleepy even after day 1, and one had a large headache. Day 2 was quite a bit better though, perhaps thanks to Q4, which we nailed. It would be a lot nicer if we could've flown in a bit earlier...

Our trip back was even worse. Merida-Mexico city-Guadalahara-San Francisco-HK-Singapore. Think it lasted more than 40 hours.

But nothing beats Malaysia. I heard that they arrived on the morning of day 1. This is reflected in their scores.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:00 am  Back to top 
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Armo
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#25
Yeah it was very difficult. For example in ,my country the difference between Mexico is 10 hours and all of us wanted to sleep in the time of exam. But as Fedor Petrov said "all such justifications are not for strong guys"(actually we are not strong guys Mr. Green )
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:31 am  Back to top 
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Kaynar
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#26
Hey guys can you tell me who has got bronze from Kyrgyzstan team Question

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:51 am  Back to top 
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Armo
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#27
His name is Bekjan Djumbaev(KGZ1).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:01 am  Back to top 
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Armo
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#28
Sorry, I forgot. The second guy is Ernist Tilenbaev(KGZ5)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:11 pm  Back to top 
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#29
Armo wrote:
Yeah it was very difficult. For example in ,my country the difference between Mexico is 10 hours and all of us wanted to sleep in the time of exam. But as Fedor Petrov said "all such justifications are not for strong guys"(actually we are not strong guys Mr. Green )

Same happened to Hong Kong, the time difference is 13 hours Mad
I could not sleep well before the contests. Mad Mad
But again, such justifications are not for strong guys Razz

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:13 pm  Back to top 
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Kaynar
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#30
Armo
thanks

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:20 am  Back to top 
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nonIMO
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#31
fleeting_guest wrote:
I think that what I wrote is in agreement with your posting: at most 1 of the 6 people (boys) in the IMO team from the USA in that year is from the "native white majority" (i.e. European Christian origins), and between 1 and 3 of them are immigrants. Sometimes the immigrants on US/Canadian/Austrialian/European teams do not even have citizenship in the country that they represent in the IMO. The proportion of Jewish students is also impressively high, even in countries such as US and Canada where most of the Jewish population are not immigrants and have lived there for several generations.


Just I thought that Lurie sounded French-like, Khazanov - Russian-like, Shazeer - arabic-like and Wang - Chinese-like. But if at least three of them have Jewish roots and all were born in America, then it doesn't look like the world's combined team for myself, rather like the American few-nation team.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:48 am  Back to top 
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fleeting_guest
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#32
nonIMO wrote:
fleeting_guest wrote:
I think that what I wrote is in agreement with your posting: at most 1 of the 6 people (boys) in the IMO team from the USA in that year is from the "native white majority" (i.e. European Christian origins), and between 1 and 3 of them are immigrants. Sometimes the immigrants on US/Canadian/Austrialian/European teams do not even have citizenship in the country that they represent in the IMO. The proportion of Jewish students is also impressively high, even in countries such as US and Canada where most of the Jewish population are not immigrants and have lived there for several generations.


Just I thought that Lurie sounded French-like, Khazanov - Russian-like, Shazeer - arabic-like and Wang - Chinese-like. But if at least three of them have Jewish roots and all were born in America, then it doesn't look like the world's combined team for myself, rather like the American few-nation team.


Khazanov was definitely an immigrant who came to the USA around high-school age from somewhere in ex-USSR, according to articles that appeared on the Internet around the time of that IMO. I don't know whether Shazeer or Wang were immigrants but I would guess that if not, they are 1.5 or 2.0 generation immigrants (children of immigrants born outside or inside of USA).

Lurie is an East European or Russian Jewish surname, also spelled Luria, as in the famous Russian psychologist Luria who wrote The Man With A Shattered World, and the Talmudist rabbi Isaac Luria.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:22 pm  Back to top 
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Yossarian
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#33
siuhochung wrote:
Same happened to Hong Kong, the time difference is 13 hours Mad
I could not sleep well before the contests. Mad Mad
But again, such justifications are not for strong guys Razz


Same as us. Actually it's 11 hours the other way.
But I slept like a log. Not that it matters how I slept, since our team didn't sleep well. Sigh. But our guys are strong and need no such justifications. Heh heh. Sort of.
Ok, some DID grumble a bit... somewhat... a lot...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:36 am  Back to top 
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#34
Yossarian wrote:
siuhochung wrote:
Same happened to Hong Kong, the time difference is 13 hours Mad
I could not sleep well before the contests. Mad Mad
But again, such justifications are not for strong guys Razz


Same as us. Actually it's 11 hours the other way.
But I slept like a log. Not that it matters how I slept, since our team didn't sleep well. Sigh. But our guys are strong and need no such justifications. Heh heh. Sort of.
Ok, some DID grumble a bit... somewhat... a lot...

if one of my teammates didn't flunk IMO (he got 1 point), hong kong would have beaten singapore this year. Wink (Hong Kong now 138, Singapore now 145)

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:27 am  Back to top 
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khuong
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#35
 Vietnam & Bulgari IMO team'll impressively be back on track!
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The Vietnam IMO was not successful this year. This is the truth and we accep it!


However, if anyone knows about the VN IMO strength throughout the past 25 years must have admitted that this is just an accident! According to the media, they have lots of trouble in selecting the team members as well as preparation for the IMO 2005.

I have talked to representatives and members from Korea, Japan, China, Russia, Cuba, Bulgari, Switzerland, Canada and US and all were very regertful that VN IMO team ranked only 15th this year..Especially, China, Bulgari and US strongly believe that the VN IMO team will get back on track (i.e. at least in the top 5) and will prove the strength in their home soil in 2007 by occupying the 1st or 2nd final ranking!

I would also think that Bulgari was not good at this time competition..And they will come back..


From an observer of IMO for the past 25 years..


The truth is that at least 4 or 5 countries, which never appeared in the top ten throughout the past 10 years, occupied the top ten in IMO 2005. Arguably, you may win or loose this time, but your true capability will never be changed!

THE ORDER OF THE TOP TEN COUNTRIES IN IMO RANKING WILL SOON COME BACK TO WHERE IT WAS!

Just have a look at the ranking and wait for the truth to come back!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:10 am  Back to top 
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Fedor Petrov
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#36
Re: Vietnam & Bulgari IMO team'll impressively be back on track!
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khuong wrote:

The truth is that at least 4 or 5 countries, which never appeared in the top ten throughout the past 10 years, occupied the top ten in IMO 2005. Arguably, you may win or loose this time, but your true capability will never be changed!
[/size]


The true capability almost always exceeds the real result. And even this TC may increase (say, TC of Iran was much less 20 years ago, yes?)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:25 am  Back to top 
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Valentin Vornicu
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#37
Re: Vietnam & Bulgari IMO team'll impressively be back on tr
The IMO Observer
khuong wrote:
This is the truth and we accep it! The truth is that at least 4 or 5 countries, which never appeared in the top ten throughout the past 10 years, occupied the top ten in IMO 2005. Arguably, you may win or loose this time, but your true capability will never be changed!
We do, as long as you write it with normal font. Please be careful! Wink

About the last phrase now: here's were you are deeply wrong. I sincerely don't think that people born in Singapore for example are dummer than people born in Romania or Vietnam, or Russia.

The reason for which they did worse in the IMO was that they had no access to training resources up to the last couple of years. With the internet age, things have started to change. Now almost anyone with internet access has access to important quantities of resources for training for the IMO, so you might be witnessing a continuation change of the IMO Top Ten in the next years Smile
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:46 am  Back to top 
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#38
I think the factor really matters is the training system. The usual strong countries usually have a well-developed training system to keep them a good result. So I think khuong is partially right--it's too hard for new countries to crack into top 10. (of course, it's possible for very strong countries like moldova)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:56 am  Back to top 
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Yossarian
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#39
siuhochung wrote:
if one of my teammates didn't flunk IMO (he got 1 point), hong kong would have beaten singapore this year. Wink (Hong Kong now 138, Singapore now 145)


pfft. Too bad. Hee hee.
Yeah. We owe our great ranking in part to screw ups by other countries. I was wondering about that 1 point... At first I thought it was a printing error. But Vietnam was even more shocking. Ordinarily, we could never hope to compete with them. But something went wrong on their end. Did you see their Q4 scores?!

HK we can hope to beat again, but Vietnam... we'll just have to wait for them to slip. We noticed that something was wrong this year when they lost to Thailand in the SEA-MO a while back. But then, we somehow managed to lose to Indonesia and Philippines to finish 5th, so... (I was rather worried when THAT happened.)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:00 am  Back to top 
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#40
I think next year Singapore can beat Hong Kong, because 2 silver medalists are leaving. I can only think of 2 elites in hong kong to fill the vacancy, but I wonder we can keep the same result next year.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:07 am  Back to top 
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