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Post Posted: Feb 26, 2006, 10:30 am • # 1 


Let p,q \in \mathbb N^{\ast}, p,q \geq 2. We say that a set X has the property \left( \mathcal S \right) if no matter how we choose p subsets B_i \subset X, i = \overline{1,n}, not necessarily distinct, each with q elements, there is a subset Y \subset X with p elements s.t. the intersection of Y with each of the B_i's has an element at most, i=\overline{1,p}. Prove that:

(a) if p=4,q=3 then any set composed of 9 elements doesn't have \left( \mathcal S \right);

(b) any set X composed of pq-q elements doesn't have the property \left( \mathcal S \right);

(c) any set X composed of pq-q+1 elements has the property \left( \mathcal S \right).

Dan Schwarz

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Post Posted: Apr 15, 2006, 4:05 pm • # 2 


Any thoughts on this one?

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"Germany has offered to send troops to the Lebanon border. I bet Israel's breathing a sigh of relief there. Nothing makes Jewish people feel safer and more secure than the German Army marching on their border."
 
 
Post Posted: Apr 19, 2006, 11:54 am • # 3 


(a) is a consequence of (b) and (b) is almost obvious: we partition the set into p-1 parts of size q, and take these to be p-1 of the sets, while the p'th set is just equal to one of the first p-1. No matter how we choose p elements, some two of them will be in the same part in our partition, and we're done.

For (c), we can use induction on p. For p=2,\ X has q+1 elements, and we choose two subsets X_1,X_2 of size q of X. If X_i don't cover X, then we choose one of our elements to be outside both X_i, and the second element arbitrarily, and if they do cover X, we take the first element in X_1\setminus X_2, and the second one in X_2\setminus X_1, which are clearly both non-empty.

Suppose now that (c) has been proven for values smaller than our current p, which we assume to be \ge 3. Let's count the pairs (x,A), where x\in X and A is one of the p sets which contains x. On the one hand, this count gives pq, because there are p\ A's and each of them has q elements. On the other hand, it's \sum_{i=1}^{(p-1)q+1}n(x_i), where (x_i)_i is an enumeration of the elements of X, and n(x_i) is the number of sets among the p chosen ones that contain x_i. Since 2((p-1)q+1)>2(p-1)q>pq, there is at least one x_i with n(x_i)\le 1. We take this x_i to be one of the chosen elements of X, and eliminate the q elements of one of the p chosen subsets of X as follows: if x belongs to no such set, this set will be arbitrary, while if it does belong to such a set, we eliminate precisely this (unique, because n(x_i)=1) set. We are now in the same setting as before, except that now p has been replaced by p-1, and the induction hypothesis gives us the extra p-1 elements of X that we have to choose.
 
 
Post Posted: Jun 13, 2006, 11:53 pm • # 4 


is this a hard problem
 
 
Post Posted: Sep 07, 2009, 4:44 am • # 5 


Nice proof, grobber, but not without a little flaw:

grobber wrote:
We take this x_i to be one of the chosen elements of X, and eliminate the q elements of one of the p chosen subsets of X as follows: if x belongs to no such set, this set will be arbitrary, while if it does belong to such a set, we eliminate precisely this (unique, because n(x_i) = 1) set. We are now in the same setting as before, except that now p has been replaced by p - 1, and the induction hypothesis gives us the extra p - 1 elements of X that we have to choose.


should be

grobber wrote:
We take this x_i to be one of the chosen elements of X, and eliminate q elements of X as follows:
- If x belongs to none of the p chosen subsets of X, then we select an arbitrary of these p subsets and eliminate all of its elements but one (which we choose arbitrarily), and eliminate x afterwards.
- If x belongs to one of the p chosen subsets of X, then we eliminate precisely the q elements of this (unique, because n(x_i) = 1) set.
We are now in the same setting as before, except that now p has been replaced by p - 1, and the induction hypothesis gives us the extra p - 1 elements of X that we have to choose.


(The mistake was that you eliminated q + 1 rather than q elements in the first case.)

See also http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/viewtopic.php?t=299325 for further discussion.

darij

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