Carnegie Mellon Math Jam
Go back to the Math Jam ArchiveUS IMO Deputy Team Leader and CMU faculty member Po-Shen Loh will join John Mackey (Associate Department Head of Mathematics) and Mor Harchol-Balter (Computer Science professor and co-founder of Western Pennsylvania ARML team), together with Assistant Director of Admission Mike Kozak, to discuss opportunities, academics, life, and admissions at CMU.
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Facilitator: Po-Shen Loh
Hello and welcome to the Carnegie Mellon Math Jam!
I'm Dave Patrick, and I work here at AoPS. I am particularly pleased to have our guests from Carnegie Mellon joining us tonight, as I am a proud member of the CMU Class of 1992 (B.S. in Math/Computer Science and M.S. in Math).
Before I introduce our guests, let me quickly explain about this classroom. This room is moderated, which means that all your questions and comments come to the moderators. We may share your comments with the whole room if we so choose.
For now, please hold your questions -- we'll let you know when you can start asking questions. Also, due to the number of people attending tonight, we may not be able to get to every question.
Now let me introduce our guests for the evening. (Their usernames are in bold as I introduce them.)
Po-Shen Loh (psloh) is on the math faculty at Carnegie Mellon, and specializes in Combinatorics, with particular interest in probabilistic arguments. He has been to six International Math Olympiads, once for a silver medal, once as a tour guide, and four times as the Deputy Leader of the USA team. He taught at the Math Olympiad Summer Program as far back as 2002, and most recently secured a National Science Foundation grant to bring research into the program. He went to Caltech as an undergraduate thanks to a merit-based scholarship, and completed a masters degree in mathematics at the University of Cambridge under the Churchill Scholarship. He then went to Princeton for his Ph.D., and joined Carnegie Mellon as an Assistant Professor immediately afterward.
John Mackey (jmackey) is the Associate Department Head of the Department of Mathematical Sciences. John barely graduated from high school, and went to a state college that was required to take all Ohio graduates. He did extraordinarily well, but decided to go to the University of Hawaii to learn more about Polynesian and Asian culture, as well as to learn surfing and develop a deeper understanding of math. Although people said he would never get a job, he was able to secure a John Wesley Young instructorship at Dartmouth, where he taught for 4 years. He moved on to be a Preceptor of math at Harvard from 2000-2003. Needing bigger challenges and cheaper real estate, he moved to Pittsburgh, PA, to see how many John Nashes could be produced at CMU during his career.
Prof. Mor Harchol-Balter (ProfHarcholBalter) is an Associate Professor in Computer Science. For four years, she served as the Head of the Ph.D. program in Computer Science at Carnegie Mellon. She works in the area of analytical performance modeling of computer systems. She uses a lot of math (particularly probability, stochastic processes, and queueing theory) to come up with better designs for computer server farms that use less power and provide faster response. She did her PhD work at U.C. Berkeley, her Postdoctoral work at M.I.T., and has been a faculty member at Carnegie Mellon for the past 12 years.
Mike Kozak (mwkozak) is an Assistant Director of Admission at Carnegie Mellon. He has spent the past five years working with the Office of Admission to bring some of the best and brightest students to Carnegie Mellon and Pittsburgh. He also serves as the Office of Admission's liaison to the Mellon College of Science, working closely with each of the individual departments in the college.
Thanks very much to all our guests for spending part of their evening with us tonight!
Now, I'll turn the floor over to Po-Shen.
Hello everyone!
Thanks for coming tonight to our Math Jam.
We look forward to this event every year, because we love talking to sharp and motivated people.
(That's why I chose to come to CMU as a professor a few years ago.)
Some interesting things have happened here recently, and the environment here has exceeded my wildest expectations.
Some of you might have noticed that Carnegie Mellon ranked #2 on last year's Putnam exam - the college equivalent of the Math Olympiad.
But that's only the tip of the iceberg, and it's the natural consequence of having a top-notch group of professors who not only do great research, but also care a great deal about students.
We're all in John Mackey's office right now, which is the epicenter of the undergraduate math program here at CMU. When he starts talking, you'll see why.
(It's a pity that we don't have a video feed, or you'd see the 2-liter bottle of Diet Pepsi in his hand!)
Instead of giving you a lot of standard details about CMU, we're going to turn the room over to questions right away.
Last night, I noticed that there were tons of questions, so there is no time to waste!
Let's go. Tell us what's on your minds!
BLASTOFF!
What's your acceptance rate?
@engarde: 25% for math and 7% for CS
did we have a CMU mathjam previously this year?
does CMU have early entrance?
@sejalmidha We do have early acceptance for students looking to skip their senior year at start at CMU a year early. You apply as a normal regular decision student would, just a year early.
Does CMU have any math clubs that prepare students for competitions?
What does CMU look for in prospective undergraduates?
Hi William, we have an active math club that has undergraduate talks and we also go to the Pittsburgh Symphony regularly! Also, PS LOH does the Putnam Seminar every Fall and I have to say, he and the course are SPECTACULAR

@engarde: There are different acceptances for different "colleges" -- so yes, it depends on your major.
What is this "Math Jam"
@lightbulb: This is your chance to Jam us with your questions about life and academics at Carnegie Mellon!
Does CMU have a good Chemical Engineering program?
What should i study to get into ib program?
From where I sit, CHEME is top 15

Hi
psloh-not about college, but what book do you recommend for combinatorics?
@forgood: If you're starting out, there's a great book by Lovasz, Pelikan, and Vesztergombi - and some of them were even very involved with Olympiads!
@ark2010 We look for well-rounded undergraduates who are very strong academically, very passionate about their chosen field of study, and have a number of extracurricular contributions to bring to campus.
Can you elaborate on the early entrance thing? How are the acceptance rates altered?
how much does cmu cost?
Just under $60,000 a year for total cost of attendance.
How's the merit-aid at CMU?
What math classes does CMU offer?
Hi William, we have tons of math classes, around 50 undergraduate and 10 graduate per semester. This Fall, we have a great course on elliptic curves, a seminar on fermat's last theorem and a host of honors classes, including matrix theory, multivariable calc, abstract algebra and analysis!
We do have some merit-based aid at CMU. My recommendation is that you do very well on math contests

are there merit scholarships?
How does one get on the Putnam team at CMU?
@Diehard: We have a huge Team of 100+ students who take the Putnam! Every person gets an individual rank and credential, so this is a popular activity to do.

Is there a good physics department at CMU?
Hi Mistere, We have a very good Physics Department, which houses the McWilliams Center for Cosmology that is out of this world

@williamliang451 Our primary scholarship is the Carnegie Scholarship which went to 7% of our admitted students last year. It's based on merit as well as need. It targets students who fall into the category where the qualify for little to no need-based financial aid.
how many scholarships do you offer?
Is $60,000 For graduate or undergraduate?
@Monkeymash: The tuition for the PhD program is $0. In fact we pay you to do a PhD.
Hello Dr. Loh! How competitive is admission to the "ultra-honors program for extremely talented math graduates"? Are students applying under the Early Admission Plan eligible?
@AIME15: The program tends to select students who get 16 on AIME...
Can one double-major at CMU?
@mistere Yes, you can!
I live in PA, do i get any preference?

@forthegreater: No preference.
Does CMU care more about test scores or ECs?
@AIME15: ... but in all seriousness, the program is self selecting! There are many great people here, and if you are up to it, you will be part of it!
@SumA30, Of course we care more about Elliptic Curves

Is there a minimum age for the PhD program?
@Monkeymash: Nope. We've had 18 year olds ...
Was Carnegie Mellon always called that? Or were there two different schools that merged?
Hi all!
@Vexbrain Carnegie Mellon became Carnegie Mellon when the Carnegie Institute of Technology merged with the Mellon Institue in 1967.
Hi Hex

@AIME15: You see, there was always a special track within the Math degree which gave high level classes to the top students here. We like to take care of very motivated students!
what is the cmu? srry i wasn here...
@ajp2076: CMU = Carnegie Mellon University
How well is very well? IMO? MOP?
Is NYU a good college?
@ajp: No, it's a good university.
Why "Math"?

@MathO, Math, because it is an arena created by beautiful minds to explore the boundaries of thought
In general, what other mathematics careers are possible to pursue after attaining a math degree?
you can't get 16 on AIME.
@williamliang: But have you tried? Just fill in EVERY SINGLE circle on the answer sheet.
I heard Stanford is turning into a party university...
@ajp: I can hear them from over here too.
You automatically get a 16. I've tried.
How about 15? I will be finished with my undergraduate work by then.
@Monkeymash: Sure, fill out the online application... I'm looking forward to seeing it.
scholarships?
ok, I will!
Is CMU a big school for math?
Can one apply and get accepted to CS major in CMU even if I didn't take any courses relating to it?
@julia2001 - CMU is just the right size for math

@AplayerDanny: Yes, one doesn't have to have taken CS classes.
persuade me to go to CMU over MIT
@hobobob: We would love to! Please come and visit, so that we can have a good chat!
So, I've never really understood this. Do you need a masters in order to pursue a PhD?
@engarde: No, you don't need an MS to pursue a PhD. You typically pick up an MS on the way.
does CMU have awesome math program or advance math?
@julia: Awesome Math was not at CMU this summer, but Idea Math was!
What does CMU CS school look at for acceptance? Does qualifying for AIME help acceptance rate?
What other sciences are offered at CMU that are considered very popular?
@AplayerDanny: Yes, it helps. But the acceptance rate is *really* low (7%), so you should do more than qualify.
@sindennisz, Physics, Chem, Bio and MATH and COMPUTER SCIENCE, but really, isn't it all just science?
@psloh - How did you prepare for IMO's
@forgood: I just liked solving problems for fun. I went through lots of old problem books, trying them when I had nothing else to do.

How is the campus life at CMU?
@ark2010 Our students are very active here outside the classroom. This year we have over 250 active student organizations on campus ranging everything from academic activities, music and arts, athletics, etc. Students also get to take advantage of the city of Pittsburgh with it's large student population (85,000 students between 10 colleges/universities).
does CMU legacy help
@hobobob Legacy is one factor of many that we'll consider in admission.
are there languages to take
What makes Carnegie Mellon unique from other colleges like MIT?
@niraekjs Yes, what languages are you interested in?
@realmadrid, We are such a tight family, I'm here with my colleagues whom I ADORE, and we are an amazing team. I've never been such a part of a cohesive unit at an academic institution. We think innovatively, and take RISKS. This makes things exciting and I feel empowered to do GREAT THINGS!
@realmadrid08: Mackey is right. You would be amazed how easy it is to find faculty in their offices. We all do research with undergrads as well. I am currently working with 3 undergrads (as well as 7 PhD students).
How does Carnegie Mellon compare to more elite universities such as Columbia (My top choice right now...)?
@Bonus: This really depends on the person! If you are really motivated about math and science, and want to work really hard (but have fun doing so), then the tech schools might be a good fit for you. The only way to really tell is to visit campuses in person though, which is why we encourage everyone to do so before settling on a place. I ended up changing my mind many many times when deciding where to go for undergrad and Ph.D. In both cases, I changed my mind.
do you have BS+MS (combined) programs in CS/EE or both?
@hobobob: I know that I had a Putnam student do that in EE.

How are you typing so fast?!!
@good: We have mad skills.
does CMU offer interviews?
@stevenydc Yes. We offer them on campus through Nov and with alumni through Feb 1.
@sindennisz, It was just featured in the fisk guide and is one of the top in the world. Importantly, there are interdisciplinary programs that link music/art/drama with sciences like math and cs and other fields. Truly progressive and exciting

What are the other factors besides legacy?
@forthegreatergood Too many to list here.
How is the music program at CMU?
How is the dorm for incoming freshmen. Is it possible to get a single room?
well some exotic languages like japanese and german and mandarin.

@AplayerDanny: Only under special circumstances can you get a single room. But after freshman year, you can live off campus, and the housing around campus is beautiful and inexpensive.
@niraekjs: You can also take SML.
@hobobob: SML is a TLA.
what is SML??
is an interview required?
@stevenydc No, but highly recommended.
Is it possible to triple-major?
@mistere: Yes
Does CMU give full scholarship to students living in a low income family?
@AplayerDanny Not in all cases, though it is possible.
@hobobob: SML is a programming language: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_ML
When one transfers from one school to another in CMU, does he automatically get accepted? OR does his application get mixed up with incoming freshmen?
@hobobob: and TLA is "three letter acronym".
Hi GoodGuy, we take transfer from CC's, as there are some really good instructors at various CC's around the country. That said, we have specially designed multivariable calc classes that we'd like you to take

@AplayerDanny: No, it's not automatic. It will depend on your grades.
are math classes taken at a community college (calculus C/D) transferable credits? Do they count as AP classes?
Does CMU have a good Athletic program?
@Diehard: Yes. Our Putnam team was ranked #2.
@AplayerDanny Transfer applicants are also reviewed separately from first year applicants.
what do you look for when deciding who to accept and who to reject for math?
@william: We are looking for you to apply.
does CMU require strong english, because I have been here for 2 year, so my reading and writting are not good as native speaker,but I love math and science ?
@Diehar: Yes, we're #1 in Robotic Soccer!
@julia2001 We do require the TOEFL or IELTS for non-native English speakers.
hi
Hi Firelight, Welcome

does CMU not have a medical school?
@stevenydc We don't have one, but we work very closely with the one right down the street at the University of Pittsburgh.
for admissions, do higher level math classes not offered at the high school but taken at a community college count as AP classes?
goodguy, it depends on the class, what have you taken?
Do you offer on campus housing for minors in the PhD program?
@Monkeymash: What is a minor in the PhD program. There's no such thing.
does CMU recruit USAMO winners?
@hobobob: USAMO winners tend to be pretty successful at many places, but there are other ways to excel too! We like people who genuinely love working hard.

Can you pay insane amounts to get a single room freshman year?
@engarde Rooms are assigned based on the date of your enrollment deposit. Singles are limited in the first year and usually reserved for students who need them for special reasons.
This question showed up before but was not answered...can you tell me more about early admission?
What is your opinion on foreign languages at school? I hate taking spanish, and am only doing it to impress universities.
@Discipulus Are you asking about skipping your senior year and starting college a year early?
wait, if i have stayed in the US for 4 years ,and attended US highschool do I still need to take TOEFL?
@stevenydc Yes.
@forthegreatergood: Foreign languages are not the most important factor in admissions. Spend your time on other things, in my opinion ... math, science, CS
What research is currently being conducted at CMU?
@mistere: CMU is a broad technical university, and lots of research is being conducted here in many scientific areas. I'm in Math, and I study combinatorial structures, but that's just one data point. If you join us, you can help us conduct research too!
what is the PhD stipend
when is the deadline for applications?
what does SML stand for.
@niraekjs: SML stands for "Standard ML".
January 1 for regular decision
@hobobob: Tuition is free, and you are paid about $25K per year (in CS). I think math is similar.
How do the instructors type so fast?
@Hislop: CMU people tend to be pretty good at doing things with computers.
Why did you choose to come to work, do research, learn, etc. at CMU as opposed to other colleges?
@sindennisz, I came to CMU because they empowered me to do things with the undergraduate program in mathematics that I just don't think are possible elsewhere in the country. They gave me a chance to implement bold visions and stood behind my plans. I love this place and work very hard for its success
What is the best degree to pursue at CMU, in your opinion?
Hi
what does ML stand for...
but toefl is more difficult than the SAT, I try to get 90, but I only get around 80. Can other factor help me ,like get 800 on math SAT ,join robotics club and learn advance math in AoPS?
@573: "Metalanguage"
@nessrox26: My recommendation is a dual-major in CS and Math.
@julia2001 We do require the test, and require that students score a 102 or higher. We will still review your application without that score, but it will be harder to gain admission.
i will take calculus C and calculus D at De Anza College
Are there any courses in Game Theory or related areas?
After you get A's in these classes, we will follow up with other courses

@Diehard: Yes, tons in the CS program. There are a lot of faculty who work on game theory, pricing, machine learning theory and stuff like that full time.
@Discipulus To apply for early admission you have to apply under the same process as a normal first year applicant. The only extra requirement is that you do an admission interview, which for other applicants is not required.
I mean age-wise. Can I live on campus in a dorm if I am 14-15 years old in the PhD program?
@Monkeymash: I'm sure we can arrange for that.
About my foreign language question: do you suggest taking a few years of one language? I'm a freshmen, and don't really want to take it so i can take other courses
@forthegreatergood We require two years of foreign language minimum.
What sis the recommended SAT score?
Do you teach group theory?
@nira, Of course, groups are all over the place in mathematics. You could say that they are ubiquitous
Do you think that a senior that just learned about the AMC/AIME/USAMO/IMO could work hard for a year and be able to do well on the Putnam in a year if I went to CMU
@573863 See our stats here: http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/undergraduate-admission-statistics
@Mika: I have 2 sections of my Putnam seminar just for people like you! I believe that problem solving is an essential skill, and our department has allowed me to build a "problem-solving track" which develops this skill. I have lots of people who come in with less experience, but catch the bug after a few years. I find those students to be the most rewarding to teach.

Does middle school foreign language classes count as a year of a foreign language?
No, we want to see two in high school.
What does CS stand for?
@nessrox26: CS = Computer Science
How many words per second do you type?
@AndyZ: How long are the words?

I was actually shocked that i had to take TOEFL, if i get ..say over 650 on SATreading, is toefl still required?
What courses should one take to pursue a career in computer or non-computer game design?
@carberry, we have a whole school (entertainment technology) for that!
@stevenydc It's still required.
what is TOEFL?
TOEFL = Test Of English as a Foreign Language
I'm taking Number theory and combinatorics at lehigh university. how do i put this on my application?
@573863: There are lots of ranks, but the ranking that you might care about is how much you earn when you get out. Take a look at this web site: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/10/15/the-10-best-colleges-for-your-bank-account/
@forthegreatergood, you should talk about it in your personal statement. BTW, are you doing lehigh valley arml?
In general, what rank is this college?
how is the food?
@realmadrid08 The food is pretty good. Lots of variety. 33 separate locations on campus. Half operated by local restaurants.
don't more than half the people who take putnam get 0.
@niraekjs: Yes, but I feel that with some practice on generic problem solving, a motivated person can score well above zero. I hope you will join the the nonzero group.

@573863: There are lots of ranks, but the ranking that you might care about is how much you earn when you get out. Take a look at this web site: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/10/15/the-10-best-colleges-for-your-bank-account/ You will note that CMU grads make way more than those at any other school (almost 80K to start on average).
For all you people who think they type superhumanly fast, I hate to reveal it to you but it only seems like that because they delay the questions enough so that they already have an answer waiting

@jmackey yes i am. we were close this year!
we are watching you! and we like you

@psloh: is the Putnam seminar already a class subject?
@joss12: Yes! It's what I teach in Fall.

Is there a single thing that CMU would be known for the most?
In undergraduate admissions, would Calculus C (taken at a community college) count as an AP class?
@rollingrock123 We'd look at it as a rigorous course, but not necessarily as an AP. You could still get credit though.
@Vexbrain: Go to www.cmu.edu/brag/ and you'll see the highlights.
How is attending the study camps in the Science Olympiads generally regarded? Would it make one an extremely promising applicant?
@diehard, that is generally looked on quite favorably. Showing initiative and getting out for some math during the Summer is great

what is this putnam that people are talking about?
@steven: It's a math contest for college students, which gives us the excuse to offer problem solving courses.

My preference is biomedical engineering. Do you think CMU is right for me?
@nessrox26 Biomedical engineering is very strong here at CMU. The big difference in our program though is that we have students pair it with a more traditional engineering discipline.
How big is the campus about?
@Vexbrain: From your perspective, the reason that you want to go to CMU is that you're at a top school (#1 in CS), but you still get tons of individual attention from faculty.
How much credit is given to students who take the Putnam seminar?
@niraekjs ~150 acres. About a 10-15 minute walk from one side to the other at the furthest points.
@MCL: Putnam seminar students get 3 credits, which is 1/3 of a course. But many of them aren't doing it for the credit. I even have some not-for-credit meetings for the really enthusiastic students, and those are always well attended!
Hi
@Thoms1324, Hi and welcome

what is Punam math contest? where can you take it?
@julia: You take the Putnam at your undergraduate university. Whether or not you decide to join us here at CMU, I strongly encourage you to enter it.
@hobobob: We've got a lot of hackers in CS, but we've also got a lot of great mathematicians in CS. We also have a very social environment, with great working spaces (lots of on-campus cafes, and tons of lounge areas in the buildings).
do you take account tha Amc and AIME scores if we mention them?
@joss12, Yes, Admissions is on the lookout for these scores and we like them a lot!
just curious; how many nobel prize winners have attended carnegie melon?
Jmackey, how about USAMO scores?
Did any of you participate in math research as an undergrad and how was it (significance, mentorship)?
What STANDS OUT to you on applications?
@prolikethis, we salivate over USAMO Scores as if they were a five star dinner!
@Disc: ALL CAPS tend to stand out. But I assume you wanted to stand out in a different way... My colleague in admissions will give you an answer too.

@niraekjs 18 total faculty and alumni included.
@JohnPeanuts: I did math research when I was a CMU undergrad, and I even got a paper published out of it!
What math levels do you do?
@Thoms1324, we only do the top level
@Discipulus We look for strong students who want to be here at CMU and can express their reasons for that in their application essays.
does cmu have a culture, like MIT has a "hacker" culture?
#PutnamCalculus: There are quite a few questions which have that Analysis flavor, and involve integrals and convergence. It makes it more fun than the Math Olympiad.
Where can i find your email addresses? if i have later questions
jmackey@andrew.cmu.edu
mkozak@cmu.edu
@forgood: ploh@cmu.edu
@forthegreatergood: harchol@cs.cmu.edu
Is putnam calculus based? or is it only algebra
DOes Putnam have a lot of calculus?
What types of geometry do you teach.
@nira, differential
How much do SAT and ACT scores matter when considering someone for admission?
@carberry Standardized tests count for about 1/3 of the review.
what is this?
@trevor, a question mark.
Is there any archive with tons and tons of practice problems for competitions?
@forgood: I like the archive on AoPS.

How do you get into CMU?
@Thoms1324 You apply.
does CMU like to see the report of AoPS on my application
@julia2001: Your scores on AMC, AIME, USAMO will do.
how rigorous are the grad reqs, loose like Brown or hard and fast like Brown?
@hobobob, YES!
What do you have to do to get in to MIT?
@Shark: Not get into CMU.
I heard that CMU admits CS majors separately. How is the admission process/criteria different?
@sindennisz We admit to individual programs across the university. CS is the most competitive academic program with an 8% acceptance rate.
i mean UChicago?
@hobobob, The answer to that is also YES!
Does CMU offer special scholarships to undergrads who are able to write publishable papers?
Is there a place to put AMC/AIME/USAMO scores on the application?
@sindennisz Our stats broken down by college are here: http://admission.enrollment.cmu.edu/pages/undergraduate-admission-statistics
@pr0likethis: Not yet, but you can disclose this to us on your resume, and we will definitely take it into account. Next year it will be on the application.
@psloh: i have read some of you handout about probabilistic method, but i think some of the porblems i cant solve, which book do you reccomed?
@joss: There's a great book by Alon and Spencer. That's where I learned the subject. It's a really nice book. I'm glad that you found the handouts on my website helpful!
what do the admission officers like on the applications?
@leinad47x We like to see well-rounded students with strong academics and well-thought out essays that tell us why you're looking at CMU.
@MCL: This is handled on a case-by-case basis. Definitely include your paper your application.
@mwkozak So all individual programs have the same requirements, it's just that they vary in competitiveness?
what is the youngest UG u ever had
@sindennisz That's right.
11
cmu culture??, mit has hacker culture, what do you guys have?
@hobobob: CMU culture is vertically collaborative, which I think is special. In this, I mean that people work together across faculty-student lines. The culture is to work hard and play hard, but in an environment supported by faculty as well. The key word is faculty.
How about MATHCOUNTS? I haven't heard much conversation about that.
@sinhaa: That's not as relevant. We want to see high school contests, not middle school.
What math books you recommend for 12 years old to study for solving AIME level problems?
@vincent: The books by Art of Problem Solving are pretty good! After that, you should solve lots of problems. You learn a lot by doing.
Should I list mathcounts on my application if I got top 30 in California?
@rollingrock123: You can list it, but high school contests are way more relevant.
psloh- what are your website handouts?
@good: If you search for my name on Google, you'll find my website, with a link to the Olympiad handouts. They are free for all!
i applied to harvard stanford and clemson
@sookim312, Perhaps if you visit us, we could be included in this list

is putnam calc based?
@good: Putnam involves calculus, yes, but there are also questions that don't use calculus.
whats your name (psloh)
@Hislop: I'm Po-Shen Loh.
where is the location of CMU
@julia2001: It's in Pittsburgh, the #1 most liveable city. You will love it here!
Where/when/how can high school students conduct serious research?
nice name
Are you allowed to double-major in CS and Math? I know they are in different colleges, which sometimes means it is not an option. But i'd love to pursue both of my interests....
Specifically for you guys, but i guess in general as well if you know: What do you guys view on someone who doesn't take math Senior year? I took geometry at high school in 8th grade, which put me in CalcIII/Linalg junior year. Senior year (this year), i tried to take an independent study but my HS wasn't supportive. I could have taken AP Stats, but I would rather self-study concepts. To r
@pro, We are really sad when that happens, but we have some awesome courses for the first semester to get you back in the swing of things, like Concepts of Math and Matrix Theory

@Bonus: I do honestly think that it would be beneficial to move to research when you are ready. However, it might be good to develop your foundation first. I fear that many people rush to research because of the glory of certain competitions.
@pr0like: Yes, you can double-major. We encourage it! Our best students double-major in math and CS.
what's CMU?
@junnymoony12 Carnegie Mellon University
Approximately how many math majoring undergrads have qualified for the AIME at least once during their high school?
@MCL, IDK, but when PS-LOH gets his hands on their brains, they become magical gods and godesses of mathematical glory

wait @Jmackey, when you say you are sad, are you sad that I am not able to take math or that I am not taking AP Stats, a class which is basically regarded at my HS as an english class
What research is CMU the best at.
@pro, I'm personally not a big fan of AP Stats, so just doing some reading and working on sites like AOPS is a winning proposition!
@niraekj: Computer Science is ranked #1, Drama is also #1, Robotics is #1, ... hard to say what is best.
@niraekj: None of our departments are ranked #0, I think.
Have you heard about the Fall Startup Event math competition?
about how many CMU students go to medical school each year? average MCAT score?
@stevenydc Not sure of the number. But we have an 85% acceptance rate to med school. You can find out some more about our Health Professions Program here: http://www.cmu.edu/hpp/resources/statistics/index.html
@rolling: Tell us about it!
technically, #0 would mean better than your own ranking.
Should I list AMC8 on the application? Or is it not worth mentioning...
@rolling: Sure, you can mention it.
Thanks @Jmackey

you're welcome pro, you can also email me anytime with these questions!
I want to pursue gastroenterology. Is CMU right for me?
@Hislop: Are you sure you have the stomach for it?
@Hislop You'll get a great preparation to get you off to med school and into that field here.
Whats the youngest attendee you have ever accommodated?
Thanks!
@niraekj: I believe 11 was the youngest undergrad.
is it in newyork
thanks@jmackey
I was just wondering how popular the fall startup event math competition is...wondering whether it is worth listing on application if I scored top 15 nationally
You're welcome Thoms, anytime!
psloh is so punny
is a mid 80s on amc 12 not helpful at all?
@steven: Yeah, not so great.
@rock: Please mention it! Anything like this is nice.

@julia2001, It's in Pennsylvania, you should come visit us!
Does CMU care about athletics?
@DaChickenInc If you're into athletics we have some strong Division III programs here.
If I don't take geometry and algebra in school, but I took the test ,get 100 and pass, and I take AP calculus BC in senior, so can that be a good factor for my application
@psloh: So, once I know the material well enough, any suggestions? As a homeschool student, finding a partner for something like the Siemens competition can be a struggle.
@Bonus: The most important part is to find a research mentor. I think that has more impact than your choice of partner. Your best bet would be to start at your local university.
@julia2001 We are only looking to see that you take 4 years of math.
how do you apply for the early admission? The one where you apply a year early?
Obviously the computer science program is amazingly strong, but any comments on the area of Artificial Intelligence? Right now that is the field i have found the most interesting in reading articles about it.
CMU is good at Combinatorics, right?
@DaChicken, We are *really* strong in Combinatorics, which nicely compliments the CS.
@Chicken: Yes, which is why I came here.

@leinad47x You have to apply under the same process as a traditional first-year applicant. You are required to do an admission interview though.
4 years of math includes math taken at a community college right? Because otherwise, I run out of math courses
@rollingrock123 That's just fine.
How's the food?
@HISLOP, It is amazing! Mor and I are battling for a chicken wing even as I type :0
@psloh: Who is the youngest person in CMU?
@1324: Our top-10 ranked Psychology department has an experimental school for 4 year olds.

@pr0like: AI is specifically ranked #1. Not only do we have AI with the CS department, but we also have an entire Machine Learning Department and a separate Robotics Institute.
Isn't the best program Divison I?
@DaChicken Division is based on size not strength.
Does CMU let people test out of courses?
@humzaiqbal, Of course, as soon as the test is over.
What math classes do you do?
@1324: We cover all the way from engineering calculus to graduate math courses. John Mackey works full time to ensure that you have great courses.
hows the food
@nira, It's still good, even after the chicken is gone, MOR and I are arm-wrestling over the desserts!
Is it possible you're going to become D1 sometime?
@DaChicken No. But, our DIII programs are some of the most competitive in the country. Our students typically have the ability to play at Division I schools but choose CMU for the academics.
There was a person who went fro 6th grade to college at CMU?
@psloh: How's the recreation?
@Hislop: Actually, he was homeschooled.
@Thoms: Typing to you at 8:30pm is what we do for fun.

what is diii?
Division 3 sports.
I only came to USA 2 year ago, so if I finish my junior, I only take 3 class of math, and my school does not have anything more than calculus BC, so I can not have 4 math year
@julia2001, Just do well in the math courses that you can get and we can take it from there once people enter CMU. Also, perhaps you could take our Concepts of Math course during Summer II?
For admissions, would you prefer a student who is completely a CS guy and programmer since he was born, vs someone who has only just recently exploring CS in high school along with other fields, but has lots of awards/achievements in a lot of areas?
@rollingrock123: Both are good!
@nira, delicious.
hows the desserts.
Dose girl have any advantage for admission if she passes AIME since not many high school girls are interested and good at math.
@bancasterdr We do look for strong female students in the technical fields.
Can you do graduate work in both the Robotics program and the CNBC program?
@psloh: What are your emails, for future reference?
@Monkeymash: Yes. Dave Touretsky works in both.
so if I take the math course in some college close to my school, that still count ?
@julia, you could email me a course description to be sure, but we are very reasonable about transfer credit

@1324: They are higher up in the conversation, but don't worry - they'll be in the chat transcript. Email is pretty good, but in person is the real thing. Do consider coming to pay us a visit sometime.

Are there undergrad admits who have had very limited CS exposure prior to college?
@rollingrock About 1/3 of the CS class come in with very little experience or none at all. We're looking for problem solvers more than anything else.
This was probably asked earlier but I unfortunately joined late: I've heard good things from people about how inclusive the Putnam team is at CMU. However, it's easy to let people take the test and not really feel like part of the team. Does each person who wants to receive personal assistance when they want?
@psloh: OK! Bye!
How do you feel about homeschool students? What are the acceptance rates?
@DiscipulusBonus: We love them.
@DiscipulusBonus We treat homeschool students exactly the same in the admission process as non-homeschooled students.
So you discriminate against genders in the application process (bancasterdr's post)? Does it mean males are less likely to get accepted?
@DaChickenInc We don't discriminate at all.
@pr0likethis: This afternoon, from 4:30 to 5:30, I worked with 15 students who just wanted to practice hard math problems. None of them are on the official team, but that doesn't matter. It would be no fun if I only had 3 students! I am very excited that I get to work with 100+ students each week to develop this skill. I consider the whole group to be The Team, and we have lots of individual discussions outside of class. If this is something you find exciting, I do hope you will join our Team!
You said you look for strong female students in the technical fields.
@psloh how can i contact you for questions about the IMO?
@good: The best is to talk in person. Will you come to Idea Math next year?
For someone new to CS, what's a good way to get started?
By new, I mean unexposed
Why do you love homeschooled students?
@good: I sometimes visit Canada/USA MathCamp as well. In general, it would be helpful to attend math programs, and then maybe we will bump into each other!
@DaChicken We do because there are typically few of them in comparison to male applicants and students in those fields. In the end though, we're already looking for the best and the brightest.
*always not already
Is CMU a private school?
What is Idea math?
Yes.
@good: Idea Math is a summer math program run by the head coach of the United States IMO team. It was at Carnegie Mellon last summer.
@AndyZ: CS includes both programming and also a lot of mathematics. Is there a college near you where you can take some classes? The online Euler problems are a great way to test out your programming skills (once you get some).
team for what?
@vincent: I was referring to our CMU Putnam team, which is one of our highest ranked sports teams.

In my situation, I will be taking all of pure undergrad math till Algebraic Topology before the end of high school. Is it possible for me to be considered a grad student by the university but at the same time still be able to complete the non math courses for my undergrad?
Is your math department big and popular, or is it more small/personalized?
YES!
have you been to IMO?
@vincent: Yes, I was a tour guide at the IMO 2001.
@vincent: I also went in 1999, 2004, 2010, 2011, and 2012.
oh
What do you like to see on a transcript for a student who is interested in game design?
Whoa. That's awesome.
@carberry We want to see a strong curriculum featuring math and science. Tough courses and good grades above all.
@Absolutefriend: Homeschooled students are often extremely bright kids who didn't take well to being bored at school. They love CMU because of the constant challenges, together with lots of personal attention.
@good: There's no qualifying score. It's completely self-selected. If you're the sort of person who loves math so much that you want to work on hard problems without really getting much "official" university credit, then you have passed the hurdle. Then we work together to help you score higher!
@psloh how do you get in? is there a qualifying score?
If an applicant plays instrument(s), would you like a recording to be submitted with the application?
Whats IMO?
As a freshmen I am taking Ap calculus bc. I'm testing out of multivariable calculus. What should I take sophomore year for math? I eventually want to get a PH.D
@sindennisz Best just to tell us that you play the instrument, for how long, and with what groups.
@forthe greatergood, You need a good linear algebra class, actually BEFORE the multivariable calc which should make use of it! Remember, the derviative IS a MATRIX!
what is the acceptance rate
@PSLoh that sounds awesome and my kind of fun. From 5:30 to 6 today I worked with a friend on Putnam A3 1985. Looks like we have something in common. Anyway, I am visiting CMU in a few weeks (sorry forgot the exact weekend) for the Sleeping Bag Weekend. Is there any way I can meet with you, even if just for a little bit to say hello? I would love to meet you
@PRO: Please do!!! We just had another top math student visit for Sleeping Bag Weekend on Sun/Mon. Please let me know when you are coming, and we will arrange to meet.
Idea Math sounds awesome. I just looked it up and I love problem solving although I'm terrible at it.
@Inc: Awesome Math is also awesome. Nobody starts out knowing how to problem-solve. It's a learned skill.
@nidhi01 About 20% overall.
@sinhaarunabh: In CS, we got around 4500 applications, accepted 300, and had 130 matriculate.
Approximately, how many students do you accept in a year?
Where was the IMO 2001 at? I forgot.
@Inc: IMO 2001 was in Washington DC, which is why I was a tour guide.

Just under 6000 applications were accepted.
@Hislop: IMO is a TLA.
What does matriculate mean?
international math olympuad
Enroll and start their freshman year at CMU.
How many people are on your waiting lists when applying?

What are your dorms like, and is it relatively easy for students to prepare their own meals if they so choose?
Why should we remember something? You said we should "Remember, the deriviative IS a MATRIX!" and I don't even know what that means.
TLA is three letter acronym for any1 who is confused.
Hi DaChicken, You should remember the fact, so that when people try to tell you otherwise, you do not mistakenly believe them.
Oh.
@genesis It varies from year to year. Typically our waiting list is large compared to other universities like CMU.
Does going to a very competitive high school help with admissions?
@rollingrock It is one factor that we consider.
jmackey my school offers calculus bc then multivariable calculus. there's no linear algebra course offered. What should I do?
how hard was the IMO
email me at jmackey@andrew.cmu.edu, forthegreatergood, and I'll try to help.
@niraekjs: IMO, the IMO was pretty hard this year.
do you think it will get harder?
@toph: I don't think the IMO will get harder. It varies every year, and I think that last year was unusual.
If you have past family that went to CMU, do you have any sort of advantage or something?
Beside AMC,AMIE,USAMO, what about HMMT, does CMU like it on my application?
@sinhaarunabh It's something we take into consideration in the admission process, but it won't automatically get you in.
@julia2000: Sure, HMMT is great too!
How would attending the AP/EA program during the summer help your admission chances?
@yaliangt It will give us proof that you can handle academic life at CMU.
Is CMU limited in admitting students who have graduated from elite private schools such as Exeter?
@MCL: Obviously not.
Are they going to put David Hilbert type problems on the IMO? Do people host the IMO just so that students from around the world can help solve problems adults can't solve?
@Inc: I don't think so. Those harder research problems are what you help us solve after you join us as a student.

how to apply to cmu
@suparnoghosal100 See www.cmu.edu/admission
when is this over?
What does CMU offer in terms of creative writing?
@AndyZ: It is over in negative 13 minutes.
@AndyZ: but we'll answer the last few questions in the queue first.

@carberry One of the oldest undergrad programs in the country. And out students get to the complete focus of award winning poets and authors.
-14 u mean
Do you have a lot of students from Asia and other countries outside the US
@agrayan, YES!!! We are extremely diverse and I personally feel enriched by the multitude of cultures

negative fifteen minutes and five seconds
I guess we'll wrap for for tonight.
I hope you had as much fun as we did.

Thank you for joining us tonight!

Thank you!

I had a lot of fun
Thanks again to all our guests for spending time with us tonight to tell us all about Carnegie Mellon.
We'll see you again next year I hope, either here on AoPS, or here in John Mackey's office!
Thank you

thank you for taking the time to answer our questions!
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!!
Thank you for hosting this math jam. I learned a lot about CMU!
thanks!!!
Have a great night.
Goodbye!
ROFl
Thank you!!!
If you joined us late (or even if you didn't), a complete transcript of the discussion will be available shortly on our Math Jam Transcripts page at: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/mathjams.php?past=1
thx
Goodbye have fun Y'all.

Thank you

You can also read the transcripts of our recent MIT and Stanford Math Jams on that page, and next week on October 23 we'll be having another Math Jam with Duke University.
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