Math Jams

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:04:01
Hello. This is the Math Jam classroom. The Math Jam will start at 7:30 PM ET (4:30 PM PT). In this Math Jam, we will discuss AoPS fall courses.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:04:22
Reminder: The classroom is moderated. Students can type into the classroom, but only the moderators can choose a comment to drop into the classroom. So, when you send a message, it will not appear immediately, and may not appear at all.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:31:07
We'll get started in just a minute.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:33:04
Hello, and welcome to an Art of Problem Solving Math Jam. Today we'll be discussing Art of Problem Solving classes. We'll start with a few sample problems, so you can get a little taste of what the classes are like. Then, I'll give an overview of how our courses work, and answer any questions you may have about the courses.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:33:15
My name is Richard Rusczyk. I founded Art of Problem Solving and have written several Art of Problem Solving textbooks.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:33:25
You might recognize me from the videos we have on the site.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:33:32
Before we get started I would like to take a moment to explain our Virtual Classroom to those who have not previously participated in a Math Jam or one of our online classes.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:33:44
The classroom is moderated: students can type into the classroom, but only the moderators can choose a comment to drop into the classroom. So, when you send a message, it will not appear immediately, and may not appear at all. This helps keep the class organized and on track. Also, only moderators can enter into private chats with other people in the classroom.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:34:00
In general in our classes, we have assistant instructors in all of our classes, and all math questions get answered by the primary instructor of the assistants. Tonight, since there are so many of you, we might not be able to answer *every single math question*, but we get to them all in the classes.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:34:15
Our assistants tonight are Shannon Rogers and Kyle Guillet, curriculum developers here at Art of Problem Solving working on our new project, Beast Academy (www.beastacademy.com).

kguillet 2013-09-17 19:34:22
Hello!

srogers 2013-09-17 19:34:25
Hiya!

patl02 2013-09-17 19:34:48
how AWESOME ARE YOU

alohamaui 2013-09-17 19:34:48
hi!!!!!!!!!!

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 19:34:48
Hello!

wcao9311 2013-09-17 19:34:48
$HELLO$

profit_lemon 2013-09-17 19:34:48
hey

violincrazy101 2013-09-17 19:34:48
hi!

cbearz2426 2013-09-17 19:34:48
hi

GlaingTx 2013-09-17 19:34:48
Hola!

patl02 2013-09-17 19:34:48
Hi

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:34:52
They're also among our awesome instructors.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:35:01
As for questions about the classes, we will try to answer all of those tonight. I will let you know when to start asking questions about specific classes.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:35:12
Also, note that you can adjust the sizing of the classroom to your liking; feel free to experiment with it! For example, most of the bars between sections of the room can be slid around. And you can change the text size with the A's at the top of the classroom.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:35:39
In this Math Jam, we will start off by doing a few sample problems. These will be drawn from our Introduction to Counting & Probability course. We won't be doing problems from all of the courses tonight, since that would take too long. Instead, we'll just do a batch of problems at the beginning of the Math Jam, and discuss the courses for the remainder of the class.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:35:53
If you're just here to discuss the courses, you can tune out for 15-20 minutes while we do some math. You can also read more about how our courses work here:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:35:54
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=classinformation

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:00
And you can read more about our online classroom here:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:01
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=howclassroomworks

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:13
Before we get started with the math, I'd like to note that the mathematics we will discuss today covers a wide range of difficulty. Moreover, I know that many of you are here just to check out the classroom before your classes start.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:18
Please understand that if you are enrolled in one of our introductory classes, or haven't much experience yet with advanced problem solving, then much of the material we cover tonight might be well beyond you right now. We won't be able to teach you all the math you need to understand this material in one night! So, don't be frustrated if you don't understand the problems we discuss for those classes -- your time will come!

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:38
Another quick note before we start on the math. While the discussion tonight will be somewhat similar to that in our classes, there are a few differences between tonight and the typical class.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:36:45
There is a much wider range of students here tonight than in our typical classes. So, some of you will find tonight's material very, very easy, and others will find it very, very hard. Also, because there's such a wide spread of students, we typically end up going a bit faster in the Math Jam than we do in class.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:37:02
Furthermore, there are many more students here tonight than in a typical class. In our classes, we get to all the student questions, and everyone who is participating gets lots of "air time" in the classroom. We also often have an extra assistant in our usual classes.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:37:15
So, tonight won't be as much fun as our classes usually are, and you won't be able to get all of your math questions answered. But in our courses, you'll get to interact a lot more with the teachers and assistants during class, and you'll get your math questions answered.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:37:28
Now, let's do a few problems, and then we'll discuss the courses.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:37:36
Suppose we have a group of 4 girls and 3 boys and we wish to seat them in a row of 7 chairs. In how many ways can the students be seated?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:37:41
Note that I can stick the problem to the top of the classroom, so it won't scroll away while we discuss it; you can adjust the bar between it and the rest of the room.

thkim1011 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

sweetomango 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

DVA6102 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

coolprincess 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

sweetomango 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7!

gusto 2013-09-17 19:38:10
7！

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 19:38:11
7!

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:38:14
You all seem very excited about the number 7.... Or does that exclamation point mean something special?

PlatinumFalcon 2013-09-17 19:38:34
Factorial

thkim1011 2013-09-17 19:38:34
7 factorial

Hobbes7 2013-09-17 19:38:34
factorial

Superwiz 2013-09-17 19:38:34
7 factorial.

crastybow 2013-09-17 19:38:34
it means factorial

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:38:34
it means factorial

allycat 2013-09-17 19:38:34
it means factorial

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:38:37
Factorial? What does that mean?

ImpossibleCube 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7!=7*6*5*4*3*2*1

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7! = 7*6*5*4*3*2*1

xiangxiangz 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7x6x5x4x3x2x1, Seven Factorial.

thkim1011 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7*6*5*4*3*2*1

violincrazy101 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7*6*5*4*3*2*1

jaymo 2013-09-17 19:39:12
n!=n(n-1)(n-2)...1

crastybow 2013-09-17 19:39:12
n * (n-1) * (n-2) ... * 2 * 1

jawowow 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7*6*5*4*3*2

kgao103 2013-09-17 19:39:12
7times6x5x4x3x2x1

fz0718 2013-09-17 19:39:12
all the numbers from 1 to 7 multiplied together

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:39:16
Ah, you're saying this problem is just a multiplication problem! Why is this just a multiplication problem?

kj2002 2013-09-17 19:40:33
because you have 7 wys to choose the first seat, 6 ways to choose the second, 5 ways to choose the third and on until you get to 1

jjaejjae 2013-09-17 19:40:33
7 seats for the first child, then 6 for the next, and son on

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:40:33
because there are 7 ways to place the first student, 6 ways for the second and so on

jeremylu 2013-09-17 19:40:33
there are 7 ways to seat the first one, 6 ways to seat the second, and the last person has 1 spot. 7*6*5*4*3*2*1

powpine 2013-09-17 19:40:33
There are seven possiblities for who sits in the first chair, six for the next chair, and so on

akanasuri170 2013-09-17 19:40:33
because there are seven choices for seat 1 and 6 for seat two and each one depends on each other

mamis511 2013-09-17 19:40:33
7 possibilities for the first chair, 6 for the second, and so on

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:40:39
There are 7 students who could sit in the first seat. For each of these choices we make for the first seat, there are six ways to choose a student for the next seat, so there are 7 x 6 ways to seat the first two students.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:40:47
Continuing in this vein, for each of these 7 x 6 ways to seat the first two students, there are 5 ways to pick a student for the third seat. Thus, there are 7 x 6 x 5 ways to seat the first three students.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:40:58
We keep going like this: there are 4 ways to seat the fourth student, 3 ways to seat the fifth, 2 ways to seat the sixth, and one way to seat the last student. This gives us 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 ways to seat all the students.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:41:06
We run into products like 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 so much in mathematics that we have a symbol and a name for it. We write 7 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 7! and we call this 'seven factorial'.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:41:12
What does 7! equal?

likeaboss2 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

thkim1011 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

jeannewang7 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

powpine 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

buffon 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

mmeja2012 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

Shivam3013 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

Jayjayliu 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

patl02 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

qwerty137 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

peterdragonking 2013-09-17 19:41:38
5040

acupofmath 2013-09-17 19:41:44
5040

cbearz2426 2013-09-17 19:41:47
5040

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:41:50
We have 7! = 7*6*5*4*3*2*1 = 7*(6!) = 7*(720) = 5040.

MathBrain2000 2013-09-17 19:41:54
Wait, are the students distinguishable?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:41:58
They sure think they are!

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:42:07
That problem was pretty simple. Let's put a wrinkle in it. Suppose we must have a girl in the first chair and a girl in the last chair. Then how many seatings are there?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:42:09
What's wrong with this answer:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:42:10
There are 4 ways to choose the girl for the first chair. After that, we have 6 students left for the next chair, then 5 for the next, and so on, giving us a total of:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:42:12
4 x 6 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 seatings.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:42:14
What's wrong with that?

kj2002 2013-09-17 19:43:02
the last one has to be a girl!

nsun48 2013-09-17 19:43:02
well the last one has to be a girl too hm

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:43:02
you are not guarenteed the last seat is a girl

Jayjayliu 2013-09-17 19:43:02
what about the other end?

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:43:02
the last seat might not be a girl

violincrazy101 2013-09-17 19:43:02
you have to take into account the last chair has to be a girl too

ssk9208 2013-09-17 19:43:02
we must have a girl in the last chair.

thkim1011 2013-09-17 19:43:02
um.. the last one isn't necessarily a girl

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:43:05
The problem here is the last chair - we must have a girl in that last chair, but our approach above definitely does not guarantee this. We might end up with a boy left at the end, which would violate the problem.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:43:09
What do we have to do to deal with this?

studentw 2013-09-17 19:44:23
seat the two girls first

crastybow 2013-09-17 19:44:23
Deal with the restriction

NatsuDragneel764 2013-09-17 19:44:23
decide those first

bgela1234 2013-09-17 19:44:23
first sit the people on the ends, then do the middle

jjaejjae 2013-09-17 19:44:23
make sure the end seats are girls first, and then work with the middle part of the row

sz123 2013-09-17 19:44:23
put a girl in the first and last chair and deal with the rest of the people

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:44:23
assign the first and last seats to girls

studentw 2013-09-17 19:44:23
seat the two girls first

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:44:32
We can think to ourselves 'How would we seat the kids according to these restrictions if we had to make up a seating ourselves?' Our answer is: we'd seat the girls at the ends first, so we make sure we satisfy that restriction. What do we find for our answer?

gusto 2013-09-17 19:44:37
Pick two girls first, then make the rest 5 people for the rest 5 seats.

LIONBLAZE333 2013-09-17 19:44:37
Choose the first and last seats first, that would solve the issue.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:44:44
That's the plan. What's the result?

alohamaui 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4x3x5x4x3x2x1

vandyweb 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4 * 3 * 5*4*3*2*1

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5*4*3*2*1

violincrazy101 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5*4*3*2*1?

qwerty137 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5*4*3*2*1=1440

likeaboss2 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5*4*3*2*1=1440

lvlqwerty 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5*4*3*2*1=1440

vandyweb 2013-09-17 19:45:53
1440

lvlqwerty 2013-09-17 19:45:53
4*3*5!=1440

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:03
As before, there are 4 ways to seat a girl in the first seat. Next we seat a second girl in the last seat - there are 3 girls left, so there are 3 choices. Now we have our restriction taken care of. We can then seat the rest of the students as before. There are 5 students left to choose one for the second chair, then 4 students for the third chair, and so on.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:05
Thus, we have 4 x 3 ways to seat girls at each end, and for each of these seatings we have 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 ways to seat the rest of the students, for a total of:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:06
4 x 3 x 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1 = 1440

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:08
ways to seat the students such that there is a girl on either end.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:14
This example brings up two important counting concepts.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:17
First, when dealing with a counting problem that has restrictions, it often pays to think about how you would create one possible arrangement yourself. Here, we realize that if we seated the students ourselves, we'd start with the girls on the ends. This brings us to our second important counting concept:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:31
When dealing with restrictions, it usually helps to deal with the restrictions first. Here, we took care of the girls on the ends first since that was our restriction.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:45
I've noticed a few of you saying that these problems are too hard or are too easy. Remember, this is a sample class. Not all of our classes are this hard or this easy!

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:46:50
Also, in our classes, if you don't understand something, you just speak up, and someone will help you. (Tonight, we have way too many students to get to every question, but our classes have fewer students and more assistants.)

patl02 2013-09-17 19:47:06
how do you type so fast????

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:08
I have a LOT of fingers. And an extra keyboard.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:23
There are other clever ways for dealing with restrictions. Let's check a couple others out:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:26
We still have 7 students to seat in a row, but two of them, Ali and Brianna, refuse to sit next to each other. In how many ways can we seat the students now?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:33
What's wrong with this solution:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:34
There are 7 ways to seat Ali. We deal with the restriction first and realize that we can't seat Brianna in either of the seats next to Ali. Hence, Brianna has 4 choices. Then the next student has 5 choices, the one after that has 4 choices, and so on.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:47:36
What's wrong?

alu 2013-09-17 19:48:28
if one sits at the end it doesnt work

alohamaui 2013-09-17 19:48:28
ali could be on the end!

allycat 2013-09-17 19:48:28
Ali could be on the end seat

Superwiz 2013-09-17 19:48:28
What if Ali is on the first/last chair??

likeaboss2 2013-09-17 19:48:28
she might me on the end

CASH 2013-09-17 19:48:28
they can be on the ends

fz0718 2013-09-17 19:48:28
ali could sit in a corner

cxy 2013-09-17 19:48:28
when ali is at either end, there is only 1 restriction on Brianna

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:48:33
The problem here is that there are not always 2 seats next to Ali - sometimes he may be put at the end. Hence, sometimes Brianna will have 5 choices for her seat.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:48:59
So, how will we deal with this?

alu 2013-09-17 19:49:07
are we still using the rule that 2 girls have to be on the end?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:49:09
No.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:49:29
Now, how are we going to deal with this little wrinkle we've discovered?

alohamaui 2013-09-17 19:49:39
casework?

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:49:39
seperate cases

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:49:44
make cases

MathBrain2000 2013-09-17 19:49:50
Count the cases with them sitting next to each other

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:49:52
We could deal with this by using casework (and we'll discuss very important casework strategies in the course - these tricky casework problems are often the difference in proceeding to the next level in MATHCOUNTS/AMC), but there is a slicker approach. What else could we do?

qwerty137 2013-09-17 19:50:20
subtract the number of cases that ali and brianna are sitting together from the total number os cases

gusto 2013-09-17 19:50:20
we can count how many ways to let both of them sit together, then subtract this number from the total number without restrictions.

studentw 2013-09-17 19:50:28
count what we dont wqnt

cxy 2013-09-17 19:50:28
we could do the number of times with no restrictions subtract the number of times when Ali and Brianna are next to each other

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:50:39
What makes this problem hard is the restriction that Ali and Brianna are not adjacent. We know there are 7! ways to seat the students without any restrictions.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:50:43
Instead of counting our desired seatings directly, we count what we don't want and subtract.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:50:49
We know there are 7! ways without restrictions, so we will try to count those that violate our restriction that Ali and Brianna are separate. We'll then subtract these violators from our total.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:50:59
In how many ways can we do the seating if Ali and Brianna are together?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:51:19
Again, we could seat Ali and then note that Brianna has . . . uh-oh. Brianna might have 1 or 2 choices. We don't want to do casework. What can we do with Ali and Brianna to easily count those cases in which they are together?

LIONBLAZE333 2013-09-17 19:52:10
Make a single block called Areanna

studentw 2013-09-17 19:52:10
make them one

MathBrain2000 2013-09-17 19:52:10
count them as one AliBrianna

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:52:10
count them as 1 person

georgewang 2013-09-17 19:52:10
make them i person

Superwiz 2013-09-17 19:52:10
Let Ali and Brianna be a new person, F.

DVA6102 2013-09-17 19:52:10
group them together and count them as one unit

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:52:23
We can pretend Ali and Brianna are one person: AliBrianna. Then, we have 6 students and we have no restrictions. Thus, we have 6! ways to seat these students. But what do we have to remember?

alu 2013-09-17 19:53:31
we can switch where brianna and ali sits

camerontiffanyguan 2013-09-17 19:53:31
multiply by 2

Superwiz 2013-09-17 19:53:31
AliBrianna can be BriannaAli.

cxy 2013-09-17 19:53:31
ali, Brianna is different than Brianna, ali

crastybow 2013-09-17 19:53:31
Ali and Brianna can switch palces

Jayjayliu 2013-09-17 19:53:31
There is a group BriannaAli

ompatel99 2013-09-17 19:53:31
That they can be switched back and forth

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:53:31
they could be AB or BA

camerontiffanyguan 2013-09-17 19:53:31
so that there are AB and BA

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:53:56
Ali and Brianna are not the same person. They could be AliBrianna or BriannaAli. How do we deal with that?

studentw 2013-09-17 19:54:23
*2

xiangxiangz 2013-09-17 19:54:23
times 2?

siddaops2013 2013-09-17 19:54:23
*2

Shivam3013 2013-09-17 19:54:23
multiply by 2

LIONBLAZE333 2013-09-17 19:54:23
Multiply by 2!

abishek99 2013-09-17 19:54:23
multiply by 2

Jayjayliu 2013-09-17 19:54:23
Multiply by 2!

kj2002 2013-09-17 19:54:23
multiply by 2

fz0718 2013-09-17 19:54:23
multiply by 2

ajoy 2013-09-17 19:54:23
multiply 6! by 2

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:54:25
For each of our 6! seatings, there are 2 orders in which we can seat Ali and Brianna in their slot. Hence, there are 2 x 6! ways to seat the students such that Ali and Brianna are together.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:54:38
So, in how many ways can we seat them so that they are apart?

ajoy 2013-09-17 19:55:23
5040 - 720*2

ompatel99 2013-09-17 19:55:23
5040-1440=3600

kdokmeci 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-2*6!

JP-GoVikes 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7! - (6! * 2)

xiangxiangz 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-6!x2

alohamaui 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7! - 2 x 6!

awesomefrog1 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-2x6!

BobaFett101 2013-09-17 19:55:23
3600

abishek99 2013-09-17 19:55:23
3600

Superwiz 2013-09-17 19:55:23
5040 - 1440 = 3600 ways.

qwerty137 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-2*6!=5040-1440=3600

alu 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-6!x2

weilinhu 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-2*6!

kj2002 2013-09-17 19:55:23
71-6!*2=5040-1440=3600

sz123 2013-09-17 19:55:23
7!-(2*6!)

sweetomango 2013-09-17 19:55:23
3600

NatsuDragneel764 2013-09-17 19:55:25
3600

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:55:30
There are 7! ways without restrictions, and 2 x 6! ways for them to be together. This leaves 7! - 2 x 6! ways for them to be apart.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:55:35
Computing this gives 7! - 2 x 6! = 7 x 6! - 2 x 6! = 5 x 6! = 5 x 720 = 3600.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:55:50
This example brings up a couple more important tactics.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:55:56
First, when it looks hard to count something directly, try counting the opposite of what you're asked for. We call this approach complementary counting, since 'complement' in dealing with groups of objects in mathematics roughly means 'opposite'. I also call this 'counting what you don't want'.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:56:09
Second, when your restriction is that some of your items must remain together when putting them in a row, a useful tactic is to consider the items all together as a single item, as we did AliBrianna above. Then you separately consider how many ways you can order the items within the group.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:56:22
These three basic examples show why it is pointless to memorize your way through counting - I can ask zillions of variations of the above questions. Instead of memorizing your way through each variation, you should learn when to add, when to subtract, when to multiply, and when to divide. Since you already know how to perform these operations, once you know when to do them, you know how to count!

powpine 2013-09-17 19:56:43
How can I learn about all this counting and probability?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:56:58
These are the sorts of problems we cover in Introduction to Counting & Probability.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:57:00
The first of these three problems was considerably easier than most of the problems we will do in the Introduction to Counting & Probability course. The second and third are a little closer to the middle in difficulty, though they are still a good bit easier than the average problem.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:57:10
In general in the course we will go through the ideas more gradually than we did here - each idea will be explored with gradually more difficult examples. Thus, the pace at which new ideas are introduced is a little slower than we did here (in which we introduced 4 general tactics in two problems!)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:57:26
While the discussion tonight was similar to that in our classes, there are a few BIG differences between tonight and the typical class.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:57:38
There is a much wider range of students here tonight than in our typical classes. So, some of you will find tonight's material very, very easy, and others will find it very, very hard. Also, because there's such a wide spread of students, we typically end up going a bit faster in the Math Jam than we do in class.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:57:55
Furthermore, there are way more students here tonight than in a typical class. In our classes, we get to all of the student questions, and everyone who is participating gets lots of "air time" in the classroom. We also often have an extra assistant in our usual classes. So, students get a lot more individual attention in the classes than we can give in these free Math Jams.

studentw 2013-09-17 19:58:14
are there going to be anymore questions?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:20
No. That's it for the math tonight. We will now discuss the courses.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:26
I'll go through a quick overview of the classes, and then we'll answer your questions.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:27
Please hold your questions until I tell you to start asking them.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:40
All of our courses offer full transcripts for each class, so if you're going to miss some classes, you'll still have access to everything that happened in class. Moreover, you'll be able to use the course message board to ask any questions you have outside of class time.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:50
Here are all the courses we offer this fall. Unless otherwise noted, each course meets once a week, 7:30 PM - 9 PM ET (4:30 PM - 6 PM PT).

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:58:54
For each course, you can click on the corresponding course name to see what days we offer the course. You can also visit the schedule page to see all the whole course schedule in one place.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:59:06
Introductory level: Grades 5-10
Prealgebra 1 (1.25 hours; 7:30 - 8:45 PM ET)
Prealgebra 2 (1.25 hours; 7:30 - 8:45 PM ET)
Algebra 1
Introduction to Counting & Probability
Introduction to Number Theory
Algebra 2
Introduction to Geometry
MATHCOUNTS Basics
Advanced MATHCOUNTS/AMC 8

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:59:36
Intermediate level: Grades 8-12
Algebra 3
Intermediate Counting & Probability
Intermediate Number Theory
Precalculus
AMC 10 Problem Series
AMC 12 Problem Series
AIME Problem Series A
AIME Problem Series B

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:59:47
Advanced
Calculus
Group Theory
WOOT: September - April (2 hours, roughly every other week)
ChemWOOT: September - April (2 hours, roughly every other week)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:59:51
Computer Science/Programming
Introduction to Programming
Java Programming with Data Structures (2 hours; 7:30 PM - 9:30 PM ET)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 19:59:56
Unless otherwise noted, classes for each course are once a week, 7:30 PM - 9 PM ET (4:30 PM - 6 PM PT). There are no classes on the following dates: November 25-29, December 23-January 3.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:00:06
Classes that have reached capacity are marked as full on the schedule, but we do have several sections available for many of these courses. Each full class has a waitlist, which you can join by clicking the "Waitlist" link to the right of the "Enroll" link on the schedule page. Joining the waitlist does not commit you to enrolling in the course, and does not ensure you a place in the course. Once on the waitlist, you will be emailed if a space becomes available for you. You will also be notified if the drop deadline passes without a space becoming available.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:00:21
More details about each course can be found by clicking the appropriate course name above or on this page:

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:00:25
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:00:35
Please note that it is likely that several of these classes will fill.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:00:38
We offer two types of classes: subject classes and contest prep "problem series" courses. Each course has its own course homepage for enrolled students. On the course homepage, there is a variety of information about the course. Each course also has its own message board on which students can ask questions outside class time. Students even have the ability to ask questions anonymously by using an "Ask a Question" feature on the course homepage.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:00
After class each week, we make a class transcript available on the course homepage. So, if you miss a class, you still have access to everything that happened in class. The class transcript also frees you from having to take notes during class. Instead of copying everything down during class, you can focus on the math and think about the problems. The transcript will be there later when you want to review.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:16
There is an accompanying textbook for most of the subject classes (not the contest prep problem series or programming courses, nor for Intermediate Number Theory). For each of these courses, there are corresponding readings in the textbook each week. As you might expect, students who work with the textbook in addition to attending class get a lot more out of the courses! The appropriate chapters for each week are listed in the Course Information document that students can access on the course homepage upon enrolling.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:41
Four of the courses (Prealgebra 1, Prealgebra 2, Algebra 1, and Introduction to Counting & Probability) are supplemented by AoPS videos.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:42
The homework varies from course to course.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:45
The Introduction-level subject classes have weekly work with our online learning system (Alcumus).

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:01:52
All of the courses have weekly online problems sets. Students complete these and submit their answers online. Most of these problems are evaluated automatically, and students get immediate feedback. In the subject classes, some of these problems require students to write full solutions. These are evaluated by instructors, and students will receive feedback on the accuracy and presentation of their solutions.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:02
Some courses also have problems posted to the message board after each class for extra discussion.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:11
To get the most out of the courses, students should spend 5-7 hours/week on the subject courses and 3-4 hours/week on the problem series courses (including class time).

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:16
(Don't worry too much about the details of how to turn in homework and such right now -- students who enroll in courses will receive detailed instructions for how to do so.)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:29
There are diagnostic tests available for each of the subject classes. You can find these on the Class Schedule page here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:39
Please note that we'll probably have a *lot* of questions tonight, so it might take us a little while to get to yours. But we will try to get to all of them!

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:39
We will get hundreds of questions in the next 2 hours. We will answer as many as we can. Here are the rules for how we will try process the questions as we receive them.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:45
1) The most recent question we see is the one we will answer. Of course, while we're answering that, more will come in. We'll then move to the most recent.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:02:49
2) Please don't spam us: Don't ask the same question over and over in a short amount of time; we'll just ignore those. If we haven't answered your question in 10 minutes, then you can re-post it.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:03:03
3) If you don't feel like waiting for your question to be answered, you can email me at classes@aops.com and I will answer your question this evening or tomorrow morning. If you are asking for a course recommendations, please include the student's math background and I will make recommendations. You can also ask questions using this form: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Store/personalrex.php

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:03:16
Click here for the schedule page.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:03:23
Also, we've anticipated some of our questions in our FAQ page.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:03:29
Shannon Rogers (srogers) and Kyle Guillet (kguillet) will be helping me answer questions tonight. They are instructors in our online school, manage a variety of aspects of the school, and work on our aforementioned Beast Academy (www.beastacademy.com) project.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:03:35
All right, fire away.

Ferrarifan24 2013-09-17 20:04:49
I have completed Algebra 1 and I'm doing Geometry now. Will it be better for me to join AMC 8 basics or advanced?

minimario 2013-09-17 20:04:49
Approximately how hard is the Intermediate Number Theory class?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:04:49
Take a look at the diagnostic tests to get a sense.

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:04:51
That depends. If you're just getting started with Mathcounts and are training for the school or chapter level, Basics might be the best fit for you. If you're looking to train for the state or national level, or are comfortable with the extra challenge, then try Advanced.

ELdrago1800 2013-09-17 20:05:01
Is this how class is everyday?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:05:02
Yes, our classes are all in this room.

gusto 2013-09-17 20:05:37
I'm interested in several classes, but cannot take them at the same time. Are you going to offer the same classes in spring next year?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:05:38
We offer most of these courses several times a year. We will have a list of spring courses up in a few weeks.

dieButteristalle 2013-09-17 20:05:52
Are there any repeats between AMC 10 and AMC 12? Should I just take one instead of the other?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:05:53
While there may be some overlap in material, AMC 12 is a more challenging course than AMC 10. Taking AMC 10 wouldn't necessarily be a replacement for taking AMC 12.

theron 2013-09-17 20:06:12
How is ChemWOOT similar, and different from WOOT?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:06:14
ChemWOOT is meant to prepare students for chemistry olympiad competitions. WOOT prepares students for math olympiad competitions.

vandyweb 2013-09-17 20:06:29
Are there videos during the class or is it only text?

zephosin 2013-09-17 20:06:29
are we going to need a mic and headphones for these courses?

mnathan6 2013-09-17 20:06:30
If you are not taking an online class, do you still have access to the diagnostic tests?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:06:32
Indeed. You can find the diagnostics by clicking on the class you are interested in here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:06:33
All of the classes are in this classroom. There is no audio or video during class. This page explains why: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=howclassroomworks

kdokmeci 2013-09-17 20:07:07
Are there any courses not offered in the Fall

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:07:09
You can find which courses are offered when here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

Gibby 2013-09-17 20:07:22
If a student is trying to get passed aime and there score is currently around 5 or 6, is the AIME course beneficial, and would it possibly let them get to USAJMO?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:07:24
The AIME course should help, as should Intermediate-level subject classes.

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:07:43
Are there always math jams or only this time?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:07:44
Here is the Math Jam schedule: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/mathjams.php

facebite 2013-09-17 20:08:07
how do I take a diagnostic test?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:08:09
You can find them by clicking on the class you're interested here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php
Then, follow the instructions that are given at the top of the test to assess your readiness for the course.

camerontiffanyguan 2013-09-17 20:08:50
are there voices or videos for the actual class?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:08:51
Our classes do not have audio or video. You can read more about how our classrooms work here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=howclassroomworks

buffon 2013-09-17 20:09:19
I am taking Algebra 1. I wonder how much workload Algebra 1 would have.

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:09:19
Our subject courses (including Alg 1) typically require 5-7 hours per week.

sss04 2013-09-17 20:09:26
If you've already taken a course would it be smart to take it again if you didn't understand everything? Are there the same questions?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:09:27
Each section of the same course is nearly identical to the others (for example, the problems in Algebra 1 are the same each time Algebra 1 is offered). Whether taking the course again makes sense for you really depends on how much you need to review. If just a little, then time with the text and the course materials you saved should be fine.

katnissmellark 2013-09-17 20:10:07

I am currently an 8th grader taking Algebra 1. I was wondering if i could do Geometry over the summer or doing the school year for high school credit?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:10:09
You will have to ask your school if they will accept our classes for credit. We can assign grades, and our school is accredited by the Western Association of Schools and Colleges.

PaleOnion 2013-09-17 20:10:13
What would be a good course for students learning Algebra 1 this year?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:10:13
If you're not getting challenged by Algebra 1 at your school, you might consider taking it with us. Check out the diagnostic for that class to see if you're ready to move on. If so, I would recommend Intro to Counting & Probability or Intro to Number Theory.

minimario 2013-09-17 20:10:22
What contest level would Precalculus amount to

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:10:23
Hard AMC 12, AIME, beginning Olympiad.

ethanBBR 2013-09-17 20:10:41
I'm a 6th grader learning pre-algebra. What class should I take if I want to compete in MathCounts?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:10:41
Our Prealgebra and our MATHCOUNTS Basics are probably good starting points for you.

facebite 2013-09-17 20:10:44
will this be graded or have some grading process?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:10:44
You can view your performance throughout the course, but we do not issue grades unless they are specifically requested.

Gibby 2013-09-17 20:11:10
Is WOOT mainly for students who are confident they will get to USAJMO, or could it help a student qualify for the USAJMO?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:11:11
It should help students qualify, as well, if they are reasonably close.

mualphatheta 2013-09-17 20:11:23
What contest level would be Geometry?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:11:23
MATHCOUNTS through beginning AIME.

Raosunshine 2013-09-17 20:11:43
does the 5- 7 hours per week of work for the Algebra 1 course include classroom time

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:11:48
Yes.

ELdrago1800 2013-09-17 20:12:00
Will there be any question worksheets or are they all in text?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:12:00
All of our homework assignments are done online. There are no worksheets for any of our courses. However, most of our subject courses do have textbooks associated with them and have weekly reading assignments.

minimario 2013-09-17 20:12:21
Would the Prealgebra course help with help with AMC 8

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:12:21
Yes.

wsmswizard555 2013-09-17 20:12:52
does taking a class count for high school credit?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:12:53
That decision is up to your school. We are accredited, and can provide grades to help in that discussion.

kj2002 2013-09-17 20:13:23
Is the Introduction to geometry good for someone who's weakest subject in geometry and has basic to strong skills in Algebra 2 and has done algebra 2 before but forgot a lot of it but can review and learn it all whenever needed and if you are about good enough to make states and think you are able to get in the top 25. This is my first year at mathcounts so I do not know this for sure. I also

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:13:24
Intro Geometry or Intro Counting would likely be the best fit.

flyingdragon 2013-09-17 20:13:51
What level of contests is Intermediate Number Theory?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:13:52
Hard AMC 12 through beginning olympiad.

fz0718 2013-09-17 20:13:59
Are there any textbooks for Intermediate number theory?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:14:00
No.

kgao103 2013-09-17 20:14:20
Does the advanced MATHCOUNTS/AMC8 course follow the book of AoPS "volume 1: the Basics?"

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:14:21
No; the Advanced MATHCOUNTS course does not have a required textbook.

peterdragonking 2013-09-17 20:14:27
AIME is harder than mathcounts?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:14:28
Yes, the AIME is one of the toughest high school math competitions. Mathcounts is designed for the middle school level. You can read more about each here:
mathcounts.org
http://www.maa.org/node/79/

Sninja 2013-09-17 20:14:49
i am a 5th grader finishing prealgebra 2. I am considering 3 courses: 1) algebra 1 2) introduction to counting and probability and 3) AMC8 basics. What sequence do you recommend?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:14:50
Most of our students follow Prealgebra 2 with Algebra 1. If you don't have much time this fall, then you might choose MATHCOUNTS Basics instead.

jkyman 2013-09-17 20:15:10
Which courses would help most with the AMC 10?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:15:11
Intro to Counting & Probability, Intro to Number Theory, and of course the AMC 10 Problem Series courses would all be very helpful for training for AMC 10.

mualphatheta 2013-09-17 20:15:59
Should I expect to get into AIME in middle school?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:16:00
You shouldn't "expect" to, but it's a great accomplishment if you do.

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:16:13
Which grades are the BeastAcademy best for?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:16:14
Beast Academy is designed for elementary aged students. We currently have a complete 3rd grade curriculum, and are developing 4th grade. We then plan to roll out 5th and 2nd grade.

ethanBBR 2013-09-17 20:16:33
Do your courses teach the basics? or is it more of a challenge for students who have a good understanding of the material?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:16:34
We do both: we teach the fundamentals, and how to extend them to solve harder problems.

theron 2013-09-17 20:16:48
for the java programming with data structures, do we need to know basic java?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:16:48
No; we do not assume prior knowledge of Java.

Ferrarifan24 2013-09-17 20:17:33
In AMC 8 will we be just working out previous years' question papers?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:17:34
We do use previous contest questions in this class, but they are not all from last year and there is a broad spectrum of basic principles you'll need for the test that are covered.

thkim1011 2013-09-17 20:17:41
Is the java class harder or easier than a AP computer science class?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:17:41
Harder.

Raosunshine 2013-09-17 20:18:03
How do you request grades on your work?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:18:04
At the end of the course, you can send an email to grades@artofproblemsolving.com to request a letter grade.

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:18:13
Note that this is only for subject courses.

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:18:25
We do not provide grades for contest prep classes.

kgao103 2013-09-17 20:18:46
Are the classes harder than the videos?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:18:47
They are deeper and richer than the videos, for sure.

Pman100 2013-09-17 20:19:08
how is the instruction in actual class.is it with sound or picture?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:19:09
There is no audio or video. We can put images into the classroom.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:19:36
Is the Discussion board for each of the classes the same as this room?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:19:36
Each class has access to a room like this one, as well as a message board.

PaleOnion 2013-09-17 20:19:49
Which course would help for 7th grade mathcount

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:19:50
Depending on what level of Mathcounts you are training for (school, chapter, state, or national), Mathcounts/AMC 8 Basics or Advanced. If you want a strong foundation in principles that are heavily featured in Mathcoutns, then Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Counting & Probability are great classes to take as well.

berkan 2013-09-17 20:20:39
what course is good for USAJMO?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:20:40
WOOT is excellent for Olympiad preparation.

camerontiffanyguan 2013-09-17 20:20:49
What happens if I signed up for a class, but it is too easy for me?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:20:50
You can drop a class and receive a full refund if done before the start of the third week. Then, you can register for a class that offers a better challenge for you.

mualphatheta 2013-09-17 20:21:29
What courses are good for getting a good score in AIME?

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:21:34
what should we take for AIME

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:21:35
Our Intermediate-level subject classes, and the AIME Problem Series.

kgao103 2013-09-17 20:22:16
Is advanced MATHCOUNTS course like the combination of a little bit of every subject?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:22:17
Yes; all of our contest prep classes are structured this way.

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:22:31
Which course(book) is best for a 5th grader?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:22:33
That depends on the 5th grader. I would suggest looking through our Schedule page and using the diagnostic tools to evaluate the best fit. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

gamjawon 2013-09-17 20:22:50
what courses should i take for pyshcics

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:22:51
We don't have physics classes, but our Precalculus and Calculus courses cover a lot of the math that you'll need.

theron 2013-09-17 20:23:02
can you request a grade for your performance in WOOT?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:23:45
While we do not provide grades for WOOT, you can request a course completion certificate at the end of the class (The same is true for any other contest prep course).

ethanBBR 2013-09-17 20:23:46
What is the student to teacher ratio for your classes?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:23:47
Varies a lot from course to course. In classes with more students, we have extra assistants.

ompatel99 2013-09-17 20:24:24
What does the "Problem Series" mean? Is it that we solve mostly problems, or mostly learn the theory behind them?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:24:25
The contest prep classes mainly focus on problems. The subject classes cover the "theory".

flyingdragon 2013-09-17 20:24:38
Why doesn't WOOT cover Number Theory this year?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:24:40
It's scattered throughout many of the classes.

PaleOnion 2013-09-17 20:25:30
Why is the questions showing up so slowly, will this be the same with the real class room?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:25:31
No; in regular class, there aren't 120 people all firing away with questions at the same time. In our regular classes, each student get his or her questions answered quickly.

GlaingTx 2013-09-17 20:25:38
Is woot also good for math counts?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:25:39
WOOT is designed for the highest level of high school math competition. So, this would not be a good resource for preparing for Mathcounts.

Superwiz 2013-09-17 20:26:19
Is it possible for me to take Algebra 2 at AoPS for high school credit?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:26:20
That depends on your high school. You'll have to ask them if they'll accept our classes for credit.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:26:26
What is the prerequisite of Algebra 1?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:26:28
The only prerequisite is that you feel ready for the course. Check out the diagnostic tests here to see if you are: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php#cd_algebra1

facebite 2013-09-17 20:26:42
are there going to be any tests?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:26:43
Our courses do not have tests.

chessinfinity1011 2013-09-17 20:26:45
is there an Algebra 4 because i did algebra 3

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:26:46
Sounds like you're ready for Precalculus.

PlatinumFalcon 2013-09-17 20:27:02
Is WOOT closed for registration?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:27:04
Nope! You can still enroll on this page: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/woot.php

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:27:11
What is the hardest course?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:27:12
Probably Group Theory.

GlaingTx 2013-09-17 20:27:25
Can WOOT help you if you are in MATH COUNTS?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:27:26
WOOT would likely be far too challenging for you if you are in Mathcounts.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:27:41
What is the average amount of students in a course?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:27:42
Typically 40-70, with more assistants in larger classes.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:28:00
Is there any sequence you suggest after Algebra 1?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:28:01
Introduction to Counting & Probability or Intro to Number Theory are good choices.

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:28:08
doesnt WOOT have 3 curriculums for 3 years?

stickman1668 2013-09-17 20:28:08
If I am close to qualifying for AIME through AMC 10, would I benefit more from taking the AIME test that might improve both my scores on AIME and AMC 10, or should I stick to AMC 10 to review some and build a solid foundation?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:28:09
WOOT class topics repeat every three years, so WOOT classes will be entirely different in 2013-14 than they were in 2012-13. WOOT Practice Tests are new every year.

jeannewang7 2013-09-17 20:28:16
Is the homework going to be given daily, or weekly for the problem subject classes?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:28:17
Homework assignments are weekly.

kj2002 2013-09-17 20:28:31
What is the hardest introduction series course

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:28:32
Introduction to Geometry.

chessinfinity1011 2013-09-17 20:28:56
I got 8 on AIME and im in 8 th grade, is that good, will the AIME course help me even further?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:28:57
It probably will help on the hard problems, but I recommend starting to move on to harder material.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:29:17
What is the hw format for Algebra 1?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:29:17
You will have roughly 10 Challenge Problems assigned each week (1 or 2 of which will be writing problems), as well as Alcumus assignments.

MathBrain2000 2013-09-17 20:29:55
Wait , where are the placement tests for the advanced/ beginning amc8 courses?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:29:56
There are no placement tests for contest-prep classes. If you're just getting started with Mathcounts and want some exposure to the kinds of problems that you'll see on that, you might try the Basics course. Otherwise, if you have more experience, the Advanced course is probably a better choice.

PlatinumFalcon 2013-09-17 20:30:19
For Olympiad Geometry, what AIME Score is assumed? Same as WOOT?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:30:20
We assume students in WOOT are very confident they can consistently get at least around 5 problems on the AIME. The same is essentially true for Olympiad Geometry.

alohamaui 2013-09-17 20:30:40
is there a book that corresponds to algebra 3?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:30:42
Intermediate Algebra

buffon 2013-09-17 20:30:58
We we still be able to access the course and records after the course is over?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:31:00
The course materials are available online for about a month after the end of the course. You can save them to your own computer for later use.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:31:24
Do we do textbook assignments for Algebra 1?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:31:26
There is a recommended reading for each week of the course, which includes solving problems in the textbook.

shoumetsu18 2013-09-17 20:31:29
About how many hours of homework is assigned

srogers 2013-09-17 20:31:35
It's hard to give specific times, since it may take different students different amounts of time. Including time in class, students should expect to spend 5-7 hours per week for the subject classes, and 2.5-3.5 hours per week for contest preparation classes.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:31:36
Reminder: We probably won't get to all of the questions tonight. There are over 100 in our queue right now. You can feel free to email us instead at classes@aops.com, and not have to sit here and wait for us to get to yours!

chessinfinity1011 2013-09-17 20:31:56
is there an advanced algebra book because i finished intermediate algebra?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:31:57
No; move on to Precalculus.

minimario 2013-09-17 20:32:02
Is Olympiad Geometry harder than Prealgebra?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:32:03
Olympiad Geometry is one of our most difficult courses. Prealgebra is our easiest course.

kdokmeci 2013-09-17 20:32:12
Are the questions in WOOT in 2012 the same 3 years later, in 2015?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:32:12
Yes.

DVA6102 2013-09-17 20:32:34
When will you offer olympiad geometry?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:32:34
Either Winter/Spring or Summer (possibly both).

minimario 2013-09-17 20:33:11
Will you offer Calculus in the Spring?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:33:12
No. Just starting in fall.

srogers 2013-09-17 20:33:15
There's a lot to cover in class, so we usually don't have time to go over specific homework problems. However, every class has a message board that allows you to discuss anything related to the class (including homework) with your course instructor, assistant(s) and classmates!

kgao103 2013-09-17 20:33:19
Will we discuss the homeworks in class?

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:33:20
How many classes should we have at one time?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:33:21
That depends on how much time you have. Our subject courses typically require 5-7 hours per week, while our contest prep classes usually require 2.5-3.5 hours per week. Many students who want to take two classes at the same time will take a subject course and a problem series course.

Ragnarok7 2013-09-17 20:33:31
Is trigonometry not covered until Precalculus?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:33:33
We introduce trig in Introduction to Geometry.

facebite 2013-09-17 20:33:56
will the more basic classes be offered all year round?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:33:56
Yes; we offer the Intro classes every season.

minimario 2013-09-17 20:34:31
WHat is the source of the homework?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:34:37
We make up a lot of the problems, and draw some from various sources.

chessinfinity1011 2013-09-17 20:34:41
How long do we get to keep the transcripts after the course is over

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:34:41
You will have access to all of the online materials for about 30 days after the last class. You can save or print any other resources you may want to keep beyond that date (such as the class transcripts).

minimario 2013-09-17 20:34:57
Why aren't there classes for Linear Algebra and Trigonometry?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:34:59
We introduce Linear Algebra in Precalculus, and cover Trig in great depth in Precalculus.

berkan 2013-09-17 20:35:04
what is good for mathcounts if im a begginer?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:35:05
Try out Mathcounts/AMC 8 Basics.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:35:49
what can i do if i need help?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:35:49
During class, you should speak up whenever you have a question. Outside of class time, use the "Ask a Question" feature on the course homepage to ask questions, and you'll get an answer.

kdokmeci 2013-09-17 20:36:19
There are courses offered in the summer and in the fall. Will the same be true for spring and winter?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:36:20
Yes, we will list the spring courses in a few weeks.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:36:51
How do you save records and fourms?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:36:53
You'll always have access to the course forum, even after the class. You'll be able to save the transcripts and any other class material on your computer (or print it out, if you want) for your personal use.

jon167 2013-09-17 20:37:04
I am consistently getting 22's, and 21's on the AMC 8. Any suggestions on how I can bump that up to a 24 or 25?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:37:05
Move beyond the AMC 8, like State and Nationals-level MATHCOUNTS (and our Intro-level courses).

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:37:09
What should I take after Geometry?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:37:10
Intro to Counting & Probability or Intro to Number Theory if you haven't taken those yet and are interested. Otherwise, Algebra 2 or 3.

programming1157 2013-09-17 20:37:28
what does algebra 3 cover?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:37:28
You can read about it here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/courseinfo.php?course_id=algebra3

fz0718 2013-09-17 20:37:49
Is Olympiad Geometry harder than Precalculus?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:37:50
For most students.

MrMerchant 2013-09-17 20:38:21
how do you improve from 110 to >130's on amc 10/12's?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:38:22
Practice focusing on the harder problems (moving on to the AIME). Our Intermediate classes should help.

Superwiz 2013-09-17 20:38:50
I read the AoPS Algebra 2 class description, and it does not seem similar to the school version of Algebra 2. Which class is similar to the school version of algebra 2??

srogers 2013-09-17 20:38:54
"Algebra 2" can mean different things from school to school, you might use the course outlines to help you determine if the classes will cover the necessary topics. Algebra 3 covers some topics that advanced schools cover late in their Algebra 2 courses.

vak 2013-09-17 20:38:55
Which course book is best for a 10th grader?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:38:56
That depends on the 10th grader and his or her background. I recommend browsing our classes here and using the diagnostic tests to determine what class is best suited for you: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

al87289 2013-09-17 20:39:31
What do you reccomend doing after algebra one if I want to do mathcounts?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:39:33
Intro Counting.

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:39:52
is there a course for improvement at countdown?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:39:53
For the Win! http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Edutainment/ftwcs3/index.php

kgao103 2013-09-17 20:40:13
I think instead of answering all these questions in every MATH JAM, we can just make a copy of all these questions and answers and save them so when they have a similar one, They can just check up the "AOPS DICTIONARY"

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:40:17
That is a great idea

sss04 2013-09-17 20:40:30
I'm doing the MATHCOUNTS program but I've already done Mathcounts/AMC 8 Advanced. What class should I take next to improve my score in Mathcounts?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:40:31
Intro to Counting & Probability or Intro to Number Theory if you haven't taken those yet.

fz0718 2013-09-17 20:41:07
Is Precalculus harder than Prealgebra?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:41:08
Significantly.

forthegreatergood 2013-09-17 20:41:24
is it recommend to learn algebra 3 before the AIME problem series? or does it not really matter

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:41:24
I would get some experience at the Intermediate level before taking on the AIME Problem Series.

shoumetsu18 2013-09-17 20:41:45
Aprox. how many hours of homework for intro to counting and probability every week

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:41:46
You should expect to spend 5-7 hours per week, including class time.

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:41:53
what should take before precalculus?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:41:54
Algebra 3.

jon167 2013-09-17 20:42:22
Last year I scored 34 out of 46 on the MATHCOUNTS chapter competition, is that good? If so, how can I improve that if I am somewhat confident in making it to state round.

weilinhu 2013-09-17 20:42:23
What are the courses like? Are the just like this?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:42:23
That's pretty solid. I'd recommend Intro courses in areas in which you are weak. For many students, that means Intro Counting & Probability.

srogers 2013-09-17 20:42:29
Our classes run similar to the lesson at the beginning of this Math Jam. You can read about other features of our courses here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/index.php?page=classinformation

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 20:42:44
Is Algebra 2 harder than Intro to CP?

farmerboy 2013-09-17 20:42:44
How does the alcumus work?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:42:45
Alcumus adapts to your performance and will give you tougher problems when you've passed a topic.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:42:45
That varies a great deal from student to student.

fz0718 2013-09-17 20:42:52
I thought advanced mathcounts/amc 8 had a countdown practice round at the end of the course.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:42:53
Indeed they do.

amitjena 2013-09-17 20:42:55
what type of chapters in algebra 3

srogers 2013-09-17 20:42:58
Algebra 3 covers our Intermediate Algebra book.

mseelam 2013-09-17 20:44:01
When is the next algebra 3 class other than october 1

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:44:02
There will be one starting in February or March.

buffon 2013-09-17 20:44:36
what happens when hw is overdue

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:44:37
You will not be able to complete your writing problems beyond the homework deadline. That, and there will be a general sadness in the world.

amitjena 2013-09-17 20:45:14
is Intermediate Algebra book is harder than intermediate counting and probability

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:45:15
I would guess that most students find the Counting book harder, but it varies from student to student.

farmerboy 2013-09-17 20:45:45
Do you have the schedule for the spring yet so that we can be thinking about it ahead of time?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:45:46
Not yet; we will list the courses we will offer in the spring soon. We'll offer all the Intro-level courses and some of the more advanced ones.

Sninja 2013-09-17 20:47:02
Will the transcript of this session be available later today or tomorrow?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:47:03
I'll probably put it up tonight.

srogers 2013-09-17 20:47:11
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/mathjams.php?past=1

Raosunshine 2013-09-17 20:47:12
so alcumus will not give me the same problems as everyone else in the class?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:47:13
Not necessarily. Every student's Alcumus experience will be somewhat different. However, some of the problems you receive may be the same as some of your classmates'.

Niuniu01 2013-09-17 20:47:21
what contest level is Alg. 3

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:47:22
AMC 12 through AIME

programming1157 2013-09-17 20:47:50
just wondering, what is the hardest class you offer

farmerboy 2013-09-17 20:47:55
How early should I be to to the classes?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:47:55
Classes are listed roughly in order of difficulty on the schedule page: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:47:56
If you like living dangerously, you can show up at exactly 4:30 PST/ 7:30 EST.

zlhs 2013-09-17 20:48:34
My kid just finished pre-algebra 1. I would like her to do some more practices in aops pre-algebra book, then take pre-algebra2. Do you recommend her to take pre-algebra 2 right away?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:48:35
Most of our students do take Prealgebra 2 right away, but some take a little time off. If she does take some time off, she can stay sharp with Alcumus.

vak 2013-09-17 20:48:59
What should I take after Geometry?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:49:00
If you have finished the Intro-level courses, then it's time to move on to Algebra 3.

srogers 2013-09-17 20:49:12
If you want to work on speed, I'd recommend our FTW! game: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Edutainment/ftwcs3/Pages/tos.php

Aang 2013-09-17 20:49:15
What is the best course to help you speed up on mathcounts problems?

programming1157 2013-09-17 20:49:40
Is WOOT similar to USAMO?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:49:40
WOOT is designed to prepare for the USAMO.

jon167 2013-09-17 20:49:47
What course or textbook is best preparation for AMC 10 to get to AIME?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:49:48
Our Intro level courses and books, and our Art of Problem Solving Volume 1 are good for the AMC 10.

vak 2013-09-17 20:50:11
I am taking Intro to Geometry in school at the moment, I was wondering if the Geometry course offered here is an AP level or...?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:50:14
There isn't an "AP Geometry". Our geometry is beyond honors-level, though.

weilinhu 2013-09-17 20:50:16
What is WOOT?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:50:17
WOOT stands for Worldwide Online Olympiad Training. WOOT is a 7-month Olympiad preparation and testing program that brings together many of the best students from around the world to learn Olympiad problem solving skills. Read more about it here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/woot.php

cxe6789 2013-09-17 20:50:44
What course should you take after alg 1

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:50:44
Most of our students follow up Algebra 1 with Intro Number Theory or Intro Counting.

Aang 2013-09-17 20:52:04
What should I take if we finished geometry but didnt get 90% correct?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:52:04
90% is a very difficult goal to shoot for with our curriculum. Typically, getting around 70% of problems correct means you are doing a good job.

stickman1668 2013-09-17 20:52:09
Of the portion of students that took WOOT, is there any range or portion of the number of students that qualified for USAJMO/USAMO?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:52:10
We don't have statistics on that, but we do consistently have 11 or 12 of the 12 USAMO winners. I would guess that at least half of the olympiad qualifiers are WOOT students.

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:52:33
what course should i take after i have taken all the intro courses? (should be taking the AMC10/12, AIME)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:52:34
Algebra 3

BuddyS 2013-09-17 20:52:46
Do you need to complete to Algebra 1 before taking Intro to number theory?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:52:47
You don't need to, though most students do.

sojourner1 2013-09-17 20:52:51
What is the comparison in difficulty level between Algebra 3, Precalc, and Olympiad Geometry?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:52:53
Roughly, Algebra 3 -> Precalculus -> Olympiad Geometry. Use the diagnostic tests to help you determine which is right for you Classes are listed roughly in order of difficulty on the Schedule page: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php

Niuniu01 2013-09-17 20:53:38
what should i take after alg 3

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:53:38
Interm Counting, Interm NT, or Precalculus.

Superwiz 2013-09-17 20:53:39
Do you recommend taking 2 intermediate classes at once??

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:53:40
I would not recommend this, unless you have a considerable amount of free time to devote to each class (About 7 hours per week for each course.)

amitjena 2013-09-17 20:54:07
is there online class for introduction to geometry

srogers 2013-09-17 20:54:08
Yep! Two sessions in the fall: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/courseinfo.php?course_id=intro:geometry

weilinhu 2013-09-17 20:54:25
Do you need to take Geometry before Algebra 2

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:54:25
Introduction to Geometry is the hardest of our intro courses. We typically recommend for students to take Algebra 2 first.

minimario 2013-09-17 20:55:12
What's the difference between the 2 AIME courses and the AIME seminar?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:55:13
Mainly, different problems (though the weekend seminars for the AIME overlap with the AIME Problem Series A heavily).

cbearz2426 2013-09-17 20:55:28
What classes would I take if I were planning to get into AIMES?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:55:30
Intermediate-level subject classes and the AIME Problem Series.

jeremylu 2013-09-17 20:56:07
how much does intro to NT apply to? (as in contests)

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:56:08
MATHCOUNTS, AMC 10.

math26 2013-09-17 20:56:34
I do not know whether to take Algebra 1 or 2

srogers 2013-09-17 20:56:39
Try the diagnostic tests here (http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/courseinfo.php?course_id=algebra1) and here (http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/courseinfo.php?course_id=algebra2) to help you determine your best fit.

vmaddur 2013-09-17 20:56:43
What class should you take after completing the Introduction to Programming Course?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:56:45
You may then be ready for the Java course. You also might want to play with Project Euler (www.projecteuler.net).

cxe6789 2013-09-17 20:56:58
should you take alg 2 after alg 1

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:56:59
You can. Most students typically take one (or both) of Intro to Counting or Intro to Number Theory in between though.

farmerboy 2013-09-17 20:57:18
I am signed up for precal. How many assignments will we cover a week? Also, will we finish the book by the end of the semester?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:57:19
We cover the whole book in the course. I'm not sure what you mean by "How many assignments will we cover a week".

nsguy1350 2013-09-17 20:57:50
Which Intermediate courses are most important for AMC 12 and AIME?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 20:57:51
The Intermediate NT is probably the least important. Algebra 3 and Precalculus are probably roughly tied for most important.

cbearz2426 2013-09-17 20:58:09
Are the classes for one class, like MathCounts Basics, all on the same day at the same time each week?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:58:10
Yes. Each section of a course will have classes on the same day of the week. All classes start at 4:30 PM PST / 7:30 PM EST

shoumetsu18 2013-09-17 20:58:20
Should i have taken intermedate algebra before intro to counting and probability?

srogers 2013-09-17 20:58:21
Most of our students take Introduction to Counting & Probability and/or Introduction to Number Theory between Algebra 1 and Algebra 2.

orangeluck 2013-09-17 20:58:42
Is it possible to take Geometry in 7th grade?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:58:43
Certainly, if you're ready for it. Check out the diagnostic tests to see if you are. http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/classlist.php#cd_intro:geometry

bryanc921 2013-09-17 20:59:10
Is there homework for classes?

kguillet 2013-09-17 20:59:11
Yes, every class has weekly homework assignments.

abishek99 2013-09-17 21:00:02
would you recommend doing the Int. Alg book or class if I'm going to be doing Alg 2 in school for the whole year and also is alg 3 a good start in improving on late AMC 10/12 and AIME

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 21:00:03
If you're ready for the Intermediate Algebra book, then yes. It will cover a lot of material that you won't see in school.

math26 2013-09-17 21:00:20
how much homework

kguillet 2013-09-17 21:00:21
Usually 10 or so Challenge Problems. If it's an introductory level course, there will also be weekly Alcumus assignments.

farmerboy 2013-09-17 21:00:29
I am signed up for precal. How many sections will we cover a week?

srogers 2013-09-17 21:00:31
You can see the schedule of topics here: http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/School/courseinfo.php?course_id=precalc . For a more detailed weekly breakdown, visit your class homepage.

stickman1668 2013-09-17 21:00:56
what course is equivalent to the computer science ap course?

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 21:00:56
The Java course.

GlaingTx 2013-09-17 21:01:20
DO u hav holidays?

srogers 2013-09-17 21:01:22
Indeed, we take holidays! There are no classes on the following dates: November 25-29, December 23-January 3.

rrusczyk 2013-09-17 21:02:26
Thank you for attending the Math Jam! If you have any questions later, you can email us at classes@artofproblemsolving.com. If you need specific course recommendations, please include the student's math background and I will make recommendations.

kj2002 2013-09-17 21:02:49
Thank you for hosting a Math Jam Bye and Thank you very much

souravsuman 2013-09-17 21:02:49
Thank you .

JOJOSHI 2013-09-17 21:03:16
Thank you!

math26 2013-09-17 21:03:16
I appreciate it

ELdrago1800 2013-09-17 21:03:16
thanks!

Niuniu01 2013-09-17 21:03:16
THANKS!!!

peterdragonking 2013-09-17 21:03:16
I thought you guys are superhuman

gusto 2013-09-17 21:03:16
Thank you!

chessderek 2013-09-17 21:04:02
that was awesome

AoPS Fall Classes Math Jam

Facilitator: Richard Rusczyk